I don’t know about the rest of the field, but has anybody been wondering what happens if a team that is already qualified shows up at a Regional. Now it is fine and great that they are there for practice, but they can qualify next year in Disney World. So why should the teams that are going to Disney World participate in Regionals. My fear is having a qualified team for Nationals winning multiple Regionals and/or awards and stealing spots. This system does seem to have its flaws:rolleyes:
I absolutey do not agree with you on this!:mad: To me and my team, the regionals are more exciting than the nationals just because they are smaller and you have better chances of doing better. I don’t see how FIRST could EVER go that route. Then wouldn’t the nationals just be like a regional to the teams that are there? It would jsut be a huge regional at Disney. The teams that have the money to go to as many regionals that they want should be able to. It’s a lot easer to take a sponsor the a competition that is closer rather than halfway across the country.
That sure is an outragious idea.
*Originally posted by Todd Derbyshire *
**My fear is having a qualified team for Nationals winning multiple Regionals and/or awards and stealing spots. This system does seem to have its flaws:rolleyes: **
I don’t understand all this talk about ‘stealing spots’ for Nats. FIRST came up with a set of rules for attending Nats, and when a team does well at a Regional, they are not stealing a spot, they are claiming what is rightfully theirs (a spot at Nats) by meeting the guidlines set by FIRST. It is up to the non-qualified teams to claim that spot for themselves by performing well enough to meet the criteria for Nats.
I think people also forget that Regionals are themselves competitions, not just qualification opportunities for Nats. Winning a regional, or an award at one, is a tremendous accomplishment for any team. Teams should be proud to do well at a regional (or multiple regionals), and should not be scorned by other teams for doing so.
If a team has a truly exceptional year, they should be able to enjoy it by collecting as much hardware as they can. They may never have the same success again.
A true competitor will try his hardest to win a competition, but will congradulate the winner, no matter who it is. Never before in FIRST have I seen teams jealous or mad at another team for winning an award. I’ve only seen teams congradulate each other. I sure hope FIRST stays that way.
Mike
Maybe if you can’t beat the best, you might not deserve to go to a selective nationals… hmm…
Ok so what you are saying is some fifty teams should go to Nationals and compete with some other 238 (even number teams) that didn’t come in based on talent. So how can you justify your statement by saying only the best of the best are you going to be at Nationals when you have 238 teams that got in first come first serve. That’s why I think if a team is qualified and is in the playoffs they should let the spot pass down so another talented team can go to Nationals. This is my point on why I think teams that qualified should step down. What you are saying Dave, Mike, and Kyle is that the number 1 team will always win. Well no kidding. However, imagine if you will a National that involved alliances of all the best teams in the World that would be impressive. Without this rule I believe Nationals will become a slaughter for all the (elite teams) against the other teams that got in first come first serve. Now I know of course people still aren’t going to agree with me so how about a compromise. If a team that wins a regional is already qualified for Florida still is the champion of that regional and gets those qualifying points for next year. However, the berth for that regional for this year’s game goes to the next alliance in that regional. If all members of an alliance are not qualified that alliance takes that berth and the spot does not pass down. I sure hope that someone from FIRST is looking into this problem because I can see that this could be a huge complication for the future.
This way all the elite teams get to have their trophies for winning the regionals, but the second tier(almost elite teams) get a shot of going to Nats
I see that team are signed up for 3 or 4 regionals, and the nationals. A compromise that would probably happen if Regional spots had to be limited, is to ask teams who are signed up for more than 2 regionals to voluntarily give up their spot so another team at least has one shot of attending a competition.
I mean save your travel money, and maybe spend it on a far-away off-season competition. Almost nobody does this, but it would be a great thing. I know WPI went to IRA last year, buts that’s all I know. But hey it would be cool to get some teams like Chief Delphi to come to Battle Cry. Heck sometimes off-season competitions are just as good as Regionals, maybe even better. Plus it is at a less busy time then during the competition weeks, and you won’t be missing all of those school days in a row.
I understand what you are trying to do, but it does have a flaw. There are only 10-20 teams that do not ever have to worry about qualifying for nationals. Everyone else is playing for the chance to qualify for the next year. It would be extremely difficult (though not impossible) to qualify for the next years nationals if you only went to nationals. In the same way, if a team couldn’t play in the playoffs, they would have less of a chance of pre-qualifying for the next year.
This would also tend to decrease the quality of the teams at the nationals. The regionals are a time to practice and debug your robot. If a pre-qualified team does not have the chance to go to the regional, all that takes place at the nationals. That would not be a good thing.
*Originally posted by Mike Soukup *
**I think people also forget that Regionals are themselves competitions, not just qualification opportunities for Nats. Winning a regional, or an award at one, is a tremendous accomplishment for any team. Teams should be proud to do well at a regional (or multiple regionals), and should not be scorned by other teams for doing so.
**
Well in response to this i have to say is you are absolutly right.
BUT FIRST doesnt think the way me and you and so many others.
they have turned the wonderful regionals into qualifications. how are they going to tell us about gratious proffesionalism if teams are going to be fighting over getting to Florida :mad:
I think y’all have over looked something that was posted by Andy B I think. If a pre-qualified team wins a regional the they are not taking a space away from teams they are just displacing it. They would actually be helping out say, an odd numbered team like say, 73, 25, or 121. These teams may have an opportunity to attend nationals which may not have arrisen without a certain chain of events happening. Sorta like a team on the bubble of the NCAA tourney or similar circumstance. They lose but if this team wins and that team loses they could get in, so they sit and watch ans cheer waiting to see what happens. I think this is where FIRST is heading. Be it good or bad, like it or not all we can do is speak our minds and decide whether we chose to deal and participate or move on.
*Originally posted by Mr.Volcano *
Well in response to this i have to say is you are absolutly right.
BUT FIRST doesnt think the way me and you and so many others.
they have turned the wonderful regionals into qualifications.
You sure found a way to selectively quote me & twist the point of my statement around. I see nothing wrong with FIRST turing the Regionals into qualifiers for the Championship. The point of my post was that people should not get upset at pre-qualified teams for winning at Regionals.
how are they going to tell us about gratious proffesionalism if teams are going to be fighting over getting to Florida :mad:
I love this quote. You’re assuming that just because Regionals now help determine who goes to the Championship, they will become rutheless & teams will only look out for themselves. If that happens, my opinion of many teams and FIRST in general will drop, and I’ll probably quit. It means that all this gracious professionalism practiced by teams was hollow and not sincere. It’s easy to help your competition out if there’s not much riding on it; the true test of gracious professionalism comes when you’ve got something to lose. But I believe that most (if not all) teams are sincere and gracious professionalism will still exist, and will be stronger than ever, since it will mean so much more now.
Mike
I hate to disturb everyone’s break into reality but I know that if I was in a competition for a qualifier I would go full force to try to win. No I’m not saying that cheating is good or anything, but if a team pays $4000 to go to a competition which is a qualifier for Florida and then you get there and say oh lets be nice and let random team win… that is not going to happen and I hope it doesn’t. I personally like to see the rivalries the deception the betrayal and COMPETITION in the game. If that happens this year I would throughly enjoy it better than the six old play school game we played last year.
Todd has a very valid point.
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I sense a lot of tension in this thread so I think i’ll keep the majority of my comments to myself, but I do think that if a team qualifies for Nats then they should be allowed to compete in as many Regionals as they wish.
Let’s try not to have this degenerate into a flame-war here. I think this is a very sensitive issue, but the fact of the matter is, a team should never be forced to limit its performance to allow another team to win. You play the matches as they come, and worry about who wins later. It doesn’t matter if its a team fighting for a Nats spot, or an original team from '92. A solution will be found that will be acceptable to everyone. Besides, what if a pre-qualified team has a non-qualified alliance partner? Then the first team is, in effect, competing to get their partner in, not stealing someone else’s spot.
That is why if an already qualified team is qualified they shouldn’t be in the qualifiers(a.k.a Regionals). Instead maybe FIRST can give those teams that have qualified some extra weeks before there robot is due. I don’t know but that could be one suggestion to help the certain crisis in Registration. CAUSE ONCE AGAIN IF A TEAM THAT IS QUALIFIED WINS then you are going to in effect losing the best of the best aspect that FIRST is trying to bring to the Florida competition.
best of the best aspect that FIRST is trying to bring to the Florida competition
How do you get best of best out of all the even number teams qualifying for Florida and none of the odd number teams qualifying:confused: They ruled out half of the playing field and that doesn’t give you the best of the best!
Todd, you said “CAUSE ONCE AGAIN IF A TEAM THAT IS QUALIFIED WINS then you are going to in effect losing the best of the best aspect that FIRST is trying to bring to the Florida competition.” If a team can’t beat a “pre-qualified team” than they aren’t the best of the best for the Nationals.
Wayne Doenges
Multiple responses to multiple posts:
Jeff, this isn’t a flame war. I’m not upset, but when I write, I get my point across quickly and I’m usually blunt. There are a lot of people who feel strongly about this point and it’s good to hear everyone’s opinions.
*Originally posted by Todd Derbyshire *
**I hate to disturb everyone’s break into reality but I know that if I was in a competition for a qualifier I would go full force to try to win. No I’m not saying that cheating is good or anything, but if a team pays $4000 to go to a competition which is a qualifier for Florida and then you get there and say oh lets be nice and let random team win… that is not going to happen and I hope it doesn’t. I personally like to see the rivalrie
I’m glad to hear you, and I’d assume everyone, is against cheating in FIRST competitions. I agree that last year’s game wasn’t good for head-to-head competition, and a team’s success relied too much on random partners.
But being nice is not mutually exclusive with good competition & rivalries. Teams can compete their hardest against each other on the field and be friends off the field. We battled against Beatty at 3 competitions last year (including IRI) and partnered with them once. Even though we tried our hardest to beat them on the field and have a small rivalry going, our teams are still friends & got together a couple of times over the summer.
That is why if an already qualified team is qualified they shouldn’t be in the qualifiers(a.k.a Regionals). Instead maybe FIRST can give those teams that have qualified some extra weeks before there robot is due. I don’t know but that could be one suggestion to help the certain crisis in Registration. CAUSE ONCE AGAIN IF A TEAM THAT IS QUALIFIED WINS then you are going to in effect losing the best of the best aspect that FIRST is trying to bring to the Florida competition.
A few points…
Keeping already qualified teams out of the regionals would hurt those teams. Regionals give teams a chance to practice against other teams in real game situations (which there is no substitute for), figure out if they need to change any hardware, and to test & practice new strategies. By keeping them out of regionals, you’re hurting their chances at winning the Championship.
Allowing pre-qualified teams to compete in & win regionals does not remove the ‘best of the best’ aspect of Nats. It merely reaffirms the fact that the team belongs at Nats. Plus, as Wayne said, since the team that finishes second doesn’t win the regional, they aren’t the ‘best of the best.’
Mike**
Ok so who qualifies if a qualified team wins a regional???
Anyone have answer because Mike obviously doesn’t get it. Yes it is a total random even number team. So my point I believe holds true that if a pre-qualified team goes to a Regional that they should participate in the regular rounds and then they should be eliminated. This is the only true way FIRST can keep Florida the best of the best and be equal with the elite teams.
Quote of the day: “It’s True it’s true!” Kurt Angel WCW U.S Champ