Alternate Source for 1/2" Flanged Hex Bearings

FIRST General Forum
#33

must be able to ship any general (i.e., non-FIRST unique) product within five business days of receiving a valid purchase request. **It is recognized that certain unusual circumstances (such as 1,000 FIRST Teams all ordering the same part at once from the same VENDOR) may cause atypical delays in shipping due to backorders for even the largest VENDORS. **Such delays due to higher-than-normal order rates are excused.

From the second page of the Robot Rules. Seems to me that FIRST is already telling teams that products may see longer than normal delays during the build season.

#34

They wrote an exception in the rule because on actual things that have happened in the past. Do you really expect rookie teams to read that on day one of build season and go “Oh boy, we better order $500 of hex bearings from VEX before they run out!”?

#35

Be honest, how many teams do you think have read those in time to do something about it?

If this is a topic that you think would make an interesting discussion (what changes would help prepare rookies for FRC) I have no problem making a new thread on it.

I don’t want to derail this thread. I just had to remark that “oh just rely on nearby teams” is an unsustainable and unhealthy model long term so doesn’t REALLY solve this problem.

#36

Consider the audience of this thread. Chief Delphi is a forum in which teams talk to other teams. I see no issue with providing the advice to stock up on certain components before build season, given that they have an established history of going out of stock. While frustration at the stock depletions can be warranted, shouting at the sky about them isn’t particularly helpful. AndyMark and VEX are almost certainly very aware of the stocking challenges already (considering they’re the ones who run out of stock), so pointing them out doesn’t seem particularly fruitful.

Teams are free to heed or disregard the advice given in this thread based upon their own budgets and other priorities. I don’t see any point at getting angry at those attempting to provide advice. Nobody thinks that this will solve all the issues, they’re just sharing how they managed to overcome the issues for their team.

#37

More realistic:

Rookie Team: “What’s an AndyMark?”

#38

Very true sadly.

To be clear, not trying to disparage Andymark or Vex. I understand the challenges they face and that they try the best to take our money when we want them too (as they should).

Suggesting that stock shortages are an sudo-intentional part of the game challenge is a bit silly.

Also please review the question that Jon was responding too:

Is Jon suggesting that 2177 is a good alternative source of hex bearings for 1086?

#39

(I honestly can’t tell if this is a joke or not. See below.)

We at AndyMark take the subject of out-of-stock items very seriously. We hustle to get things back in stock, and we work hard to communicate out-of-stock updates to our customers as needed. Never have we said this to a team when calling for stock updates.

No, not realistic. We invest a TON of resources into making sure each rookie team gets a very high quality, high performing kit of parts chassis. That blue box is not trivial. We focus a bunch of energy to rookie teams.

I am mostly sure these both are intended to be jokes. But, is that clear to a new CD user? Is ChiefDelphi a resource for FIRST teams, or is it a place to make jokes about each other and pick on each other for good ideas? For people new to FIRST who read these forums and try to get productive content out of this discussion, it may not be very clear.

These are two examples of what makes CD poor these days. I don’t appreciate our efforts at AndyMark to be the butt of a joke when they are not deserved.

Andy B.

#40

Nobody is suggesting that it’s “part of the challenge.” Jon did point out that there’s a warning in the manual regarding stock shortages, but that’s not the same thing as implying it’s a portion of the desired challenge.

All I see is someone responding to a thread with the general question of stock shortages of a particular part. He replied with how his team works around that challenge. That is a useful and beneficial post, even if it doesn’t immediately solve the overarching issue. A whole bunch of people jumping down that posters’ throat afterwards doesn’t seem particularly helpful to anyone involved

#41

It was definitely a joke, but fair point. I would hope all rookies know who the main FRC suppliers are seeing as they get the KOP drive from AndyMark (which I’ve used multiple years, it’s great), items from VEX & REV, etc.

Sadly, a lot of rookie teams don’t know what they don’t know in my experience - and that’s all over, not just region specific.

FRC rule of thumb should be - buy early, buy at least double of what you think you’ll use if you can afford it. If you don’t use it immediately, you will eventually.

#42

Given the current trade war with China, It might be wise to order your Vex parts early. Also a disruption in one part of the supply chain can effect another part. IE higher demand for US sourced parts. Makes me happy I am not a buyer trying to predict very seaonal demand. Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Vex, China, or the current administration so my comment is considered speculation. I am not making a political statement, but the political climate does effect international supply chain.

#43

If we really wanted to help rookie teams around the very steep FRC learning curve, the KOP would be able to play the game at a basic level, with the parts in the box.

Never mind, there’s no way a successful STEM program could do that… :rolleyes:

-Mike

Edit: AndyMark’s kitbot is a life-saver. Seriously. 1678 has started not opting-out of the kitbot so we can build one for ourselves each year and be better prepared to help local teams with theirs. Thank you AM!

#44

Back to the thread-necromancer’s question: I don’t recommend it.

About ten years ago (before 1/2" hex bore parts had become an FRC commonplace), I considered using 7/16" hex shafts made from 4140. Rather than just turning down hex stock to fit a round bearing shoulder, I tried broaching a 1406 bearing using this. The results were very bad. I still have that broach. It makes rounded-corner 7/16" hex holes suitable for press-fitting to hex stock, with a large press-in force. I don’t have much need for that normally.

  1. AM is great. Everyone should go buy stuff from them right now.

  2. Re: what a STEM program can do – I don’t expect it to become a cash crop, but Michigan needs to export OCCRA.

#45

I guess I don’t get why anyone would go through modifying the bearing when they could just turn the hex down to round and use a round bearing? Even if you don’t own a lathe you could surely find another team or a sponsor that could turn the ends down.

Fun to read about your pre-hex shaft as a standard trials though Richard. I would not have the patience. People really don’t realize how good we have it now even with items going out of stock. When was the last time anybody used a keyed shaft?

#46

Seriously, anytime a team asks for improvement suggestions the one I always go to is “Use the KOP chassis”. If I look at your robot and see an overweight “custom” chassis that probably took you half the season to build you’re doing it wrong.

#47

Vex is currently out of stock of the 1/2 Thunderhex bearing.

#48

Even though off-topic, this.

If you integrate a kit drive into your build regiment, then you can successfully have a prototype / practice frame ready to go within the first two days of build without having to worry about fabrication at all. Then, you can purchase your competition frame and have that built by the end of week 2. Two weeks to get the majority of your ideas down and ready for fabricating other systems on your robot is so valuable.

Remember, you have an entire robot to design in 6 weeks. If your resources are limited or your mentor / trained student base does not have substantial depth, opt in for the KOP frame or at least a variant.

#49

I can think of two reasons.

First, resources. Teams may have a hex broach but not a lathe - If you are in that situation, the idea of broaching a bearing would certainly appeal over trying to turn down a hex shaft, or even finding someone to do it for you. The thought of a few minutes with a broach and arbor press versus the delay in finding someone to help is appealing.

Second, application/design. I can easily think of several cases on my team’s robot last year where we had the bearing in the middle of the shaft with hex parts on either side. For example, running a WCD drivetrain. You can have hex hubs on your wheels with hex sprockets/pulleys, and the drive rail with the bearing sitting between them. In other situations, we’ve used the VersaPlanetary female adapter this year, supporting the shaft just past the adapter with a bearing to help reduce stress on the adapter and gearbox. That bearing has to be hex, although the other end of the shaft could be turned down and use a round bearing.

#50

I hoped that even the ludicrous idea of a AM support person saying such a thing would make it clear that it was a joke. The reason I chose to use AM over Vex was because I hold AM’s support in quite high regard.

The idea being proposed in the post by a former AM employee was that teams with the resources to stockpile COTS commodity parts deserve the advantage they get as a de facto game challenge created by FIRST and it’s suppliers is absolutely absurd. This is something I think you agree with me on judging by your response to my post.

#51

I mean, there’s also plenty of areas in Michigan that could use their own OCCRA too, not just the rest of the country!

If anyone is looking into starting an offseason league competition like OCCRA, please feel free to contact myself or anyone on 33 and we can work to give you advice and council on things, and I’m sure others involved in OCCRA would be happy to help as well.

#52

I agree. I would like to plant some OCCRA here.