These motors make a mockery of the “4 Drive Motor” rule that FIRST just recently announced.
Yes you will be limited to 4X 40A breakers but as has been said so many times before, these breakers are rated never to trip at 40A. Short durations of higher current are not going to trigger them (Buyer beware).
BUT the combination of higher peak power (which, since the free speed is not very different from the top speeds of Falcons, Neos, means higher stall torque) and FOC control means that these motors will be operating at a SIGNIFICANTLY higher efficiency than any other FIRST Motor for 2024, which means more of the (V x I) Electrical Power will become (T x Omega)
Mechanical Power. And since (V x I) is limited by the rules of FIRST (batteries, breakers, wire sizes, …) that means more Mechanical Power can get out the shaft of these Krackens.
AND the fact that FIRST made the 4 motor rule rather than fixed the 2023 High Speed Demolition Debry problem with game design tells me that the 2024 game almost certainly has high speed runs similar to 2023.
BOTTOM LINE. The top level competitive teams will all be running 4X Kracken X60s on their drive train and that will mean that they will out accelerate and our run competitors in the 2024 game.
Does this mean that ALL preorders will be filled/shipped before Feb 1st? Will Pre orders be closed/limited at any point? AKA will there be supply of motors all season? We just put our PO in for 30 units and are wondering if we should be adjusting our qty.
Love the new motor guys! Some the attention to detail on this product is impressive, and the raw capabilities are exciting. Can’t wait to try them out!
Maybe not FRCFIRST Robotics Competition motors, but I have seen lots of motor coils with melted windings. Admittedly the insulation is probably gone as well.
I would guess IP concerns. CTRE worked with Vex on the last motor so there’s probably some variety of contract that prevents them from working with anyone else to make a motor that’s too close to the Vex design.
We wanted the spline shaft to fit into standard 8mm bearing as there are plenty of options. As we introduce more products in other lines, it makes more sense. It is the reason we are discounting all associated hardware.
In Nuclearnerd’s defense, this is not the first instance of WCP lying about power levels for their standard products.
The Omio X8-2200 has been listed on their site for YEARS now with this egregious power rating of 2.2 kW! I have mine plugged into a 15A outlet that meters at 110V, that’s not even 2kW electric!
More seriously rating by instantaneous peak power ignoring all physical effects or failures is an unfortunately common way to size motors, that vendors are forced into because their competitor does as well. FRC and most motor vendors are at least listing peak mechanical output power, but some are so egregious (such as Omio and shop vacs) as to list the peak electric power at stall… Which is a far more meaningless number.
I agree all FRC Vendors should make it very clear what you will achieve IN systems, but it’s not unreasonable to also post the peak mechanical output power as a quick size comparison of motors. You may not realize that power for long (or at all), but the higher value of the curve up until that point is still valuable for acceleration and dynamic events.
Shipments are slated for mid-december, does this include pinions/other accessories listed on the product page? Going to suck if we have the motors and can’t throw them on our SDS modules.
I completely disagree with the idea that Peak Power is some sort of marketing gimmick that all the motor manufacturers are stuck with because one or other of their peers decided to use it.
Free speed and stall torque are more or less accidents of birth. I can always trade speed for torque or vice versa. What I CAN’T do is create more power. Peak Power is among the best ways to characterize a motor. As a Profession Engineer (literally – I not only get paid to engineer things but I’ve got the license and everything), if I can only get one piece of data about a DC motor (brushless or brushed), I think Peak Power would be it. It captures more about the motor than any other single thing you can tell me about it.
I’m very excited about both the new Rev motor and controller, and about the new ctre and West Coast motor. This one looks to be an improvement on an existing design, one that is well understood for both its faults and it’s benefits. The new rev motor took me completely by surprise, it appears to be categorically different, and I am expecting it to fundamentally change the way we all design some parts of our robots. In the end, I am grateful that companies are choosing to bring new products to Market, especially grateful that they are broadening the possibilities and giving a wider base of customers more of what they are looking for.
I’d agree with that for mechanical output power, but given the choice between peak power versus a safe operating curve, duty cycles, etc… I think I know what you’d pick
If I just see peak power, my first question after is for the above.
Admittedly the insulation is probably gone as well.
