they need to have a 1.0 cv and 1/4 or 1/8
I beleive you are limited to a vlave with 1/8" ports like the valve provided in the kit of parts so here will not be any quick exhaust valves
i don’t want a solenoid valve i want a exhaust valve that mounts directly to the cylinder and releases the air into the atmosphere and not back through the tubes and out of the valve
Any reason you can’t just leave it open?
Any valve on the robot must meet the .32 CV requirement per this Q&A:
As Eric said, you can probably just vent that end of the cylinder without a valve
1784 and 1086 asked if dump valves / shuttle valves or quick exhaust valves were permitted in Q&A. Answer was no. See this post as well:
Like they said a release valve is not necessary. Just leave the port open and let the air vent straight out the port. There is no rule requiring a fitting to be installed on a cylinder.
Of course, if you actually need to control the cylinder more than once…you need to have the “open” port plumbed to move the cylinder in the other direction…
I know a very excellent team used these before:
You should put a fitting on with a filter to prevent dirt from getting into the cylinder. That’s my opinion but one from experience.
Alternately, gravity can do this for you.
actually no a SOLENOID VALVE must have a cv of .32 any other “valve” can anything it wants
Um, best you read <R72> again, more carefully. Especially the part about “pneumatic system items specifically permitted on 2010 FRC ROBOTS include the following items.”, since your item is NOT listed and thus not allowed.
But, you feel free to interpret it any way you like, and good luck at inspection!
Actually, no. To reinforce Don’s post, “anything else” is not allowed.
Before you read <R72>, read <R71>.
And then pay special attention to <R72-C>, second sentence. What you’re looking for falls into the category of “such valves”. As such, it cannot have a Cv of more than 0.32 or a port diameter of more than 1/8".
Disagree with the rules or our interpretation of the rules? Submit a question to the GDC via the official Q&A. Should they rule that such a valve is in fact legal, then please print out the ruling and bring it to competition. The inspectors may or may not get the memo before the event. If you don’t do this, and then you show up with an illegal configuration, expect to sit out until it is fixed.
<R72> In addition to the items included in the KOP, pneumatic system items specifically permitted on 2010 FRC ROBOTS include the following items. All included items must be “off the shelf” pneumatic devices rated by their manufacturers for pressure of at least 125psi, and used in their original, unaltered condition (except as required for assembly with other components).
A. One or two additional Clippard air storage tanks (Clippard Part Number AVT-32-16), equivalent to those provided in the kit. This means that up to four, and no more, Clippard air storage tanks can be used on the ROBOT.
B. Pneumatic pressure vent plug valves functionally equivalent to those provided in the KOP (Parker Part Number PV609-2).
C. Solenoid valves. All such valves must have a maximum ⅛” NPT port diameter, and a maximum Cv of 0.32 (if non-KOP valves are used, the team will be required to provide part documentation validating that the valves meet these constraints). Solenoid valves that are rated for a maximum pressure that is less than 125psi rating mandated above are permitted, however if employed, an additional pressure relief valve must be added to the low pressure side of the main regulator. The additional relief valve must be set to a lower pressure than the maximum pressure rating for the solenoid valve.
D. In addition to the pneumatic cylinders provided in the KOP and the “free” pneumatic cylinders available for order through the Free Pneumatic Components Order Form, additional air cylinders or rotary actuators may be used. Cylinders may be of any configuration, and may be of any size up to a maximum of 24-inch stroke and 2-inch diameter.
E. Additional 0.160” inch inside diameter pneumatic tubing functionally equivalent to that provided in the KOP, with the pressure rating clearly factory-printed on the exterior of the tubing (note: alternate tubing colors are acceptable).
F. Pressure transducers, pressure gauges, and connecting fittings.
G. Pressure regulators with a maximum bypass pressure of no more than 60psi.
H. For the purposes of the FIRST competition, a device that creates a vacuum is not considered to be a pneumatic device and are not subject to the pneumatic rules (although they must still satisfy all other appropriate rules). These include, but are not limited to, venturi-type vacuum generators and off-the-shelf vacuum devices (as long as they are powered by provided or permitted motors).
I. For the purposes of the FIRST competition, closed-loop COTS pneumatic (gas) shocks are not considered pneumatic devices, and are not subject to the pneumatic rules (although they must still satisfy all other appropriate rules).
J. For the purposes of the FIRST competition, air-filled (pneumatic) wheels are not considered pneumatic devices, and are not subject to the pneumatic rules (although they must still satisfy all other appropriate rules).
The rule only applies to soleniod valves
Note the GDC Q&A response that i linked to above.
Neither the question nor the answer include the word solenoid. The answer says “All non-KOP valves” used in the pneumatic system. The plug valve to relieve system pressure and flow control valves are allowed per the rules and other Q&A rulings, but I would be extremely cautious with any other type of valve.
As always, the only official responses come from the GDC via the Q&A. Ask if you’re unsure if a specific type of valve is exempt from <R72-C> or not.
Read the second sentence of <R72-C>. C. Solenoid valves. **All such valves **must have a maximum ⅛” NPT port diameter, and a maximum Cv of 0.32 (if non-KOP valves are used, the team will be required to provide part documentation validating that the valves meet these constraints).
The only mention of “solenoid valves” is in the title. After that, it’s “such valves” and “non-KOP valves”. This would definitely be a non-KOP valve. This means that you have to bring documentation that it meets the constraints. If you bring documentation proving that it doesn’t (or don’t bring any documentation at all), the inspectors can make you change it. (Well, change it or sit out the entire competition.)
I would also note that multiple inspectors/rules readers/question askers have been (trying to) tell you that 1) this valve is illegal and 2) you could just use an open port.
Again, if you disagree with our interpretation, go toQ&A and ask them if this valve type is legal. We do read Q&A. If it is ruled legal, then you will want to bring the Q&A answer to competition with you, as the inspectors there will have the exact questions we do.
Please post to the official Q&A for an answer to your question.
If, as you say, <R72-C> applies only to solenoid valves, then <R72> does not explicity allow your dump valve. Therefore, your dump valve is prohibited by Rule <R71>.
If, on the other hand, <R72-C> does apply to your dump valve, then your dump valve must be Cv<=.32.
So either way, your 1.0 Cv dump valve is prohibited.
no its not prohibited in any way shape or from because it is a off the shelf commercial part and there is absolutely no rule saying me cant speed up the act of a cylinder in a safe manner