Anyone still shooting into the trap?

FIRST General Forum
1

I remember around mid build week some teams started to show they could shoot into the trap at a decent percentage.

Curious if that made it into anyways robot reveal, or if anyone showcased it a week zero event?

2

I have not seen anyone do it yet on the comp field or in a robot reveal,.it does not mean they have not though :slight_smile: if I had to guess teams realized that it would be way harder than it looked due to the team version making it easier with trap door material and letting the trap open more than at comp. Just my 2 cents

1 Like
3

1730’s reveal video shows them shooting in the trap.

5 Likes
4

One shot in a renewal video is not really evidence.

In fact, I feel safe saying reveal videos are evidence of nothing in terms of on field performance.

8 Likes
5

I was basically going to comment that after reading your first sentence. Thats like anything you see online with Robot performance though. We all look like Einstein juggernauts when we get to post our best clips only

3 Likes
6

We’re going to try it in a practice match next week, but are not actually expecting it to work on the real field as it does on the team version fields we’ve tried it on (even with the door weighted and the polycarb on the surface).

7

This is 1730 next to us practicing it and after a few pointers here’s us (9410) doing it. In the background you’ll see 1764 and they made a couple in. It maybe a little slow now but after a bit of practice there was some wiggle room. It’s on an Andymark field prop (with some recycled plastic). It’s very close to the real thing.

as always your mileage may vary

8 Likes
8

Can i ask what the pointers were?

Guessing specific aim points? Shooter Power?

We actually have a very similar ‘framework’ to your robot. But cant figure out how to consistently do it haha

9

Can you share your shooter angle in those good shots? Any technique re: top vs bottom RPM?

10

I can only really help with our architecture. the angle is 48.5 degrees to the ground (like this < ). As for speeds and feeds, the shooter wheels (4" diameter) are at around 2.5k rpm on 2 krakens 1:1. Then the feeder rollers (2" diameter) are at around 4.8k on 1 kraken 2:1 geared up. The chain is just at our frame perimeter. we are 28"x28" and the exit point of the note on the shooter is about 6" in from the frame perimeter.

Other things to be aware of is that note wear does affect this shot. We noticed on some of the more balding notes that it could act a little squirrelly and flip more than wanted. Also there is a risk of the note bouncing back into your robot if you miss. And lastly there is a bit of wiggle room on how far and what angle you are at on x and y axis but the orientation of the note does matter. The note needs to be somewhat vertical but not too much. If you shoot and the note rebounds quickly it means your note angle isn’t vertical enough.

7 Likes
11

There were a few instances during Israel week 1, seems inconsistent and occurred only twice during playoffs

12

we have a tall robot right at maximum height, and we can shoot into the trap we will have to see how well this work on an actual field, but we think with our height advantage over the majority of the robots this year shooting from the ground is a real possibility.

13

Any chance you remember which matches these were in? or which robots?

14

16 notes were scored during qual matches, matches 14, 15, 20, 32, 39, 45, 49, 54, 55, 56, 60 each had one. Matches 22 and 30 had multiple. I know 1690 has a mechanism for it and scored it a couple times, but they didnt seem to be attempting it very often, especially in playoffs. If you wanna see a spreadsheet of trap stuff and other stats I made one

ISR Week 1

15

Looks like none of these are “shooting” into the trap like the OP was asking about.

1 Like
16

i think youre right, I highly doubt first intended for us to be able to just shoot into it without something holding it open but I’m sure there will be some teams that figure it out in the later weeks. The only reason I think the trap matters is for the ranking point, and even then i think teams would rather climb with other robots than mess with a trap mech. But who knows!!!

17

Considering how many teams opted to make buddy climbers in 2018 as opposed to trying the share the rung I think you will be surprised how many teams make a trap mechanism as opposed to trying to negotiate a multiclimb.

18

To be fair, that rung was small.

And it was fairly easy to slap a bar on the robot

2 Likes
19

To us it was more about mitigating risk.

Our 2018 wings went through tons of iterations to make driving on them as easy as possible, and our climber was made ridiculously strong so it would never fail. We considered this less risky then another teams climber failing, one of us knocking each other off, or the more likely scenario which is no one else could climb but us.

This year how do you rank these in terms of risk to get the RP:

  • Team A climbs on Chain A and scores in the trap while Team B or C can both try to climb individually on chains B or C and only 1 needs to make it
  • Team A and B both climb on Chain A and either Team C also needs to climb on chain B or C or the human player must spotight the microphone specifically above Chain A.
  • Team A, B, and C all need to climb together on Chain A.
3 Likes
20

It’s not just in-match risk/reward though, it’s the whole build season process. We did some analysis and opted to not do a dedicated trap mechanism, but be able to climb on the side, allowing for harmony, and thus the RP.

This enabled us to have a 90% functional robot by the end of week 3, and the drivers could start practicing, and programmers could start programming. Because it’s dead simple, it’s only 85 lbs, super low CG, and accelerates crazy fast, and the drivers can actually drive and maneuver at it’s max speeds thanks to all the practice. If we’d built something more complicated, they would not have gotten that drive practice or programming time, and we’d be at a disadvantage in matches, especially since our first competition is a week 1, and because the trap has diminishing rewards once you get to elims. I took lots of video of our practice runs, and I can tell almost exactly when it was taken, because the skill increase is very clear from week to week.

Besides, we think we might be able to shoot into the trap anyways, with some luck. Though it’s low on the list of things to get dialed in.

4 Likes