Are pulleys considered “cable fasteners”, and are therefore an “unlimited additional part”?
In other words, can we simply add additional off the shelf pulleys (perhaps similar to part #40 or #41, perhaps not), or are we forced to have to improvise pulleys out of other allowed materials? (Oh, Ick!)
Thanks!
Keith,
Pulleys are Pulleys and Cable fasteners are Cable fasteners. The easiest way to understand the rules is to understand the intent - use the objects as intended and don’t read too deeply into it. Pulleys transfer motion and magnitude, Cable fasteners attach cables to objects. Just because that object being attached to may be a pulley doesn’t make the pully a cable fastener anymore than the Cable fastener is a pulley (2 different functions). Hopefully, you won’t have to be forced to improvise by making pulleys out of other material - think of alternative ways to achieve the same outcome. Surely they exist, Be creative - besides whats so bad about improvising! That’s sometimes where the best ideas come from. Its amazing, all the different ways of doing things you will think of when you have to.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I was not thinking or referring to the U-bolt “cable fastener” in the current inventory list when I used that term.
What I was referring to was: Is a pulley considered in the class “fastener”, such that we can go out and simply buy more, or do we have to make any additional pulleys we wish to use?
Difficulty, nor lack of creativity is not in question here. Yes we COULD make them. Our problem is TIME. As well as horribly under capitalized, we’re seriously under staffed, with only a couple of students and a couple of advisors available at any one time to work on this project. We REALLY don’t want to waste precious labor time recreating $1 hardware store items from scratch if we don’t have to, and purchasing them is allowed.
We’re substituting long hours for adequate personnel on this project (which is why I’m asking so darn many questions, and find myself posting at 1 AM YET AGAIN… <sigh>).
Bottom line: We just want to buy a few cheap pulleys rather than make them, if it is allowed.
I hope that clarifies the question.
Thanks!
Okay - although pulleys could be fastened to things, they themselves do not fall under the catagory of fasteners. If pulleys are on the additional hardware list and have an unlimited quantity then use them as you wish. If they are not, or are limited, then you need to find a different way to “fasten” whatever it is that you are trying to fasten. If the pulleys are being used as pullleys, then the number is limited by the rules as written.
OK… Lessee if I’ve got it straight.
<checks list> There are no Pulleys on the Additional materials list. Therefore, if I understand you correctly, I can MAKE some out of allowed extra materials, but I CAN NOT BUY any more off-the-shelf “premade” ones.
Right?
> If they are not, or are limited, then you need to find a different way …]
Hmmm… I don’t see ANY item that specifically says “this is a limited quantity, limited to XX items”. These documents are all written from the POV of “unlawful unless specifically allowed”. The only way I see items being limited (or a limit spec at all) are the max size spec of some materials on the AUML, or the sheer omission of it altogether from the AUML.
I think that may be why we’re having so many “can we use XX” questions here. For clarity sake in future contests, please consider adding “specific limit” notes to items if that is what is really intended.
Thanks!
Keith,
You are correct in assuming that you can make additional pulleys out of legal kit material.
I checked the “Additional Unlimited Hardware” list and did not see pulleys on it. I did see that there were 4 of one type and 4 of another in the kit.
I believe that we have limits on some things related to size and cost - I think you are correct about the quantity. We will take this under advisement and consider that an opportunity for improvement, next year.
I didn’t mean to confuse you anymore than you already are, when I suggested “maybe a different way of doing the same thing” - in otherwords, I agree that sometimes it may seem like the rules inhibit the simple solution, but that rule applies to all of the teams - so its equally troublesome for all - and sometimes its because we want to see you find alternative solutions to those problems. I’m sure there are other ways to accomplish what you are trying to do, you may not have thought about them.
> You are correct in assuming that you can make additional pulleys out of legal kit material.
OK. Thanks for letting us know. As a novice team, we’re just not sure what is allowed, and wanted to make sure we’re getting the paradigm right.
> I agree that sometimes it may seem like the rules inhibit the simple solution,
> but that rule applies to all of the teams - so its equally troublesome for all …]
A “level playing field” is IMHO the most important thing.
Actually we strongly APPRECIATE the “minimalist approach” and “improvising” aspects of this game! As a novice team with no sponsor yet and doing all of our tinkering in the High School’s shop, it allows us to have a very fair chance when competing against giants with HUGE R&D and manufacturing capacity behind them who can create things like custom differential gear cases in their factories without breaking a sweat. We’re more concerned about holding our own in the full FIRST contest in THAT regard, and is why we felt we really needed some baseline hardware experience under our belts before we jump in the deep end of the “motor pool”. <wink>
Once we understand the limits of the rules and the “what’s allowed” paradigm everyone else already knows, we’ll be OK. Just please bear with us if we seem to ask a lot of “silly” questions.
>…] sometimes its because we want to see you find alternative solutions to those problems.
Well, now that we see “Functional Equivalence with Additional Unlimited Materials” IS generally allowed, it actually opens up a LOT of opportunity areas! We happen to have a couple of major “improvisers” in our midst, and letting them loose is half the fun! <grin>
> I’m sure there are other ways to accomplish what you are trying to do,
> you may not have thought about them.
We are too far along in the timeline and couldn’t depend on a positive ruling (nor wait), so we started exploring alternatives the same day I first posted on this topic “just in case”. We’ve come up with a “Plan B” already, so I know we’ll get the job done somehow.
Thanks!