i look around and there seems to be ton and tons of arms and lauchers. i feel that the only use of our hearding manipulator would be to knock down the ball in hybrid. does any else have a hearding bot? what are your worries? can you knock down the ball? what do you plan on doing?
my biggest worry right now is that we will be a useless bot and not get picked into an alliance.
what do you guys think?
There are other herders. 702 is herd-only. I saw a team at Midwest that could only herd. Oh, and if you aren’t herding, just run laps.
Team 702 will be competing with you guys for the title of the best herder at the LA regional. They are very fast and have a PVC cage that controls the ball.
I think that herding and running laps will be very important at the LA regional.
You might want to read this 50+ post thread about the subject: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64899
Well fast lappers have proven themselves to be very effective. See 148. If you can corral a trackball and deftly and quickly maneuver it around the track, while quickly releasing the ball, letting it cross the line, and reacquiring it without much delay, you can theoretically lap half as fast as 148 and be equally as effective. The only drawback I can see is that you may periodically be taking away a trackball from another robot in your alliance who may prefer to hurdle.
I’ve seen teams with round “hoops” that surround the horizontal equator of the ball and “marble” it around the floor quite easily. I could see these teams having success, especially if they also have a way to knock down balls off the overpass.
Just go out, do your thing, avoid penalties, and do this consistently well. You’ll be most “useful” - you’ll be fine.
It you can get the trackballs off the overpass, then you might be the best addition to a alliance. Out of the 45 robots at St. Louis, there were only 10-15 teams that where good to great at getting the trackballs off. Some teams might be great hurdlers and placers, but if you can’t get the trackballs off in a timely manner, then you can easily lose the match.
there is never a useless bot in a FIRST event, if you are herding you can always herd the ball around the track and leave it the end zone for a hurdler, or if the other robots are busy bring the ball around the track again
There is another team i know of that is a herder (carries the ball around and goes uber fast) but i can’t say anything more besides “you aren’t alone.”
There’s definitely room in this game for excellent herding robots. The robot that I’ve seen this year that clearly demonstrated this was the robot of “The Riot Crew” from Portland, Maine, Team #58. At the week 1 Granite State Regional, this robot was the #4 scorer through the first 9 qualifying rounds according to the data collected by our scouting team. They scored a total of 292 points (an average of 32.44 per round) as follows:
- 0 hurdles
- 39 herds
- 20 robot-only laps
- 96 points in autonomous
They also dislodged quite a few opponent’s balls at the end of the matches with their amazingly simple ball-dislodging mechanism which enabled them to dislodge balls while driving under the overpass at full speed.
They ended up as the #11 seed, and were the first pick by the #3 seeded team (1512) in the selection draft. The alliance of 1512, 58, and 1517 progressed to the finals of the tournament – team 58 was a major contributor to that alliance’s success!
The driving of Team 58’s robot was a joy to watch, and once they acquired the ball, there wasn’t much of an opportunity for other teams to take it away. It was a joy to watch and was well-deserving of the General Motors Industrial Design Award it received.
As to whether or not there will still be a role for such herders at later regionals, I don’t know, but Team 58 and their herding robot was definitely a factor at GSR!
Team 58 did very well for themselves as a herder in New Hampshire. They were a first round pick, and regional finalist. They had one of the best autonomous modes I’ve seen, and they managed to score quite a few points in teleop mode just by driving laps, and releasing the ball as they drove through.
We have the option of hurding and will probably do so if the congestion on the field allows. We can hurd on the fly in practice, however, if the field is congested, we will probably opt to retain possession and hurdle.
Herders and racers have their place in this game. If you can drive fast and maintain control you will be an asset to an alliance as there are only two balls of your color in the game. We had two fast racers in St Louis one was picking in the elimination rounds and the other was picked. Practice speed and maneuvering on Thursday push your comfort zone, but avoid penalties!
Good Luck!
Absolutely not. 1646 is a herder and can knock balls off the overpass as well. Why be just a race robot when you can be a race robot with ball control capabilities? That’s our thinking as least, we’ll see how things go at the Boilermaker Regional in week 3.
That’s exactly what we had in mind when we built Homer.
But I will guarantee we’re the only herder that looks like a hippopotamus…
Team 2374 from Oregon was a “herder” of sorts. We had arms to control the ball but found that they were in the way most of the time so we didn’t use them. But, dislodging the ball was our specialty and was very valuable throughout the matches. We were picked for an aliance by 2046 for the elimination rounds and made it to the finals (as a rookie team). so, running laps, dislodging the ball, herding, and playing defense is a huge deal.
I believe 2041, Midwest winner, was also a hearder. They had a clean ball pick-up method, and a great strategy in QF4-1 to bring the other ball around the track so 1114 had two ball to score with, leading to a high score.
Team 1656 is a herder bot, with a method of knocking down the balls from the overpass. We’ll be competing at Chesapeake this year.
team 2365 is a herder that can knock down trackballs we will be at AZ tomorrow
wow that is relieving
I think the problem with herding is that in many cases it is mathematically unwise to herd. If the ball is left on the overpass for the entire match, it gains 12 points, so to compensate for the 12 points that you likely loose by using the ball at all, you need to do 6+ herds.
This is of course operating under a number of assumptions. For one, it assumes the opposing alliance would not knock your ball down by the end of the match.
I remember one team during a practice match at SVR lost against nobody because they knocked down both of their color balls and made 2 laps. Because the 2 opposite color balls remained, they lost 24-4.
Herders shouldn’t focus on herding. Knock the ball down if you can and lap. The biggest thing though, and few people have been working on it, defense! Knock the other teams ball around, you see 'em going in for it, give them a love tap so they have to get moving. Even if you don’t knock down show us you can lap and block, then you will get picked.