Autodesk Codec Response!!!

Technical 3D Animation and Competition
#11

*Originally posted by Kyle Fenton *
**No, there is no Quicktime Codec, there are a bunch of codec that can be selected with Quicktime. The codec he has got up there is the Sorenson 3 Codec, which is a good codec, and has lower CPU decompression cycles, but not as standard compliant as MPEG-4 is. **

Oh sorry, didn’t mean to select that one, Juss was showing the list of choices. Yeah, MPEG-4 is a much better one to use for compatibility.

Remember, the last thing you want is a DQ because they can’t see your animation. The second last thing you want is a pixelated piece of…yeah… as your animaiton, espeically if your going for technical award.

#12

Ok I just spent the time to do an image quality vs. compression test with all of quicktime’s supported codecs and DivX. I think we all know the benefits of DivX well so I will leave that out of here. The codec that had the least artifacts, ailiasing, and other unwanted stuff while still having a very manageable file size was, in fact, the video codec. I urge you to try this experiment yourself. You should be pleasantly surprised by its performance. As for audio, I would like to hear some of your expert suggestions on that. Usually I would do PCM due to lack of expertise.
-Brandon

#13

*Originally posted by reisser *
**Ok I just spent the time to do an image quality vs. compression test with all of quicktime’s supported codecs and DivX. I think we all know the benefits of DivX well so I will leave that out of here. The codec that had the least artifacts, ailiasing, and other unwanted stuff while still having a very manageable file size was, in fact, the video codec. I urge you to try this experiment yourself. You should be pleasantly surprised by its performance. As for audio, I would like to hear some of your expert suggestions on that. Usually I would do PCM due to lack of expertise.
-Brandon **

The Video Codec is a very old codec, it was primarily used 5 to 8 years ago. Its kind of obsolete. The best Image Quality to kilobytes/sec ratio is either MPEG-4 or Sorenson 3.

If you see the picture I recently posted up on top, If you click settings, you get another window giving you a bunch of options like quality, fps, etc. If you put those to Max qualities, you will see a much better picture, and also a higher bit rate.

DIVX is ok, not great though. It is a variant of the MPEG-4 Standard that does not comply with the ISMA (Internet Streaming Media Alliance) standard. The only reason DIVX took off, is because of its the #1 format for P2P networks for downloading DVD’s.

#14

I’ve seen divx take off for more reason’s than juss its the best for DVD ripping. Divx, as far as was explained to me, calculates only changes from scene to scene. So if something doesnt move at all, its not in the movie code…thus resulting in a very tiny file…we had a 15 second video of a robot once, that beacuse only part of it moved, it was like 80k or something, raytraced materials with a full range of colors and all. Its small, its a fairly fast encoding, and you can use windows media player (which I prefer to quicktime just about anyday, just because it’s my jukebox). I use divx for most of my encoding here simply because its convient.

Oh, and here’s an idea: let’s juss all go Animated GIFs…lol

QT with a standard MPEG-4 Encoding should be good enough for this…won’t it?

#15

It might help if i’d click “Advanced” once in a while huh?

Sorry about that. I don’t do a whole lot with video, but I assumed since there was a streaming server for it, it was a codec.

*jeremy

#16

The only Codec I know of is Iriquois Pliskin’s…

#17

We used DivX and got the size of our final animation (without credits) down to 17mb… Which is awesome, compared to last year’s…

#18

Well it’s too late for this year but I am going to find out who to talk to at Autodesk for next year. If we can get Quicktime Pro for each school (only 30-40 dollars) we can all render as uncompressed and break it into two files. Then create a pointer file that joins them together ‘virtually’. Thuis only takes five minutes to do and will solve all the problems.

Why? Because I’ve heard horror stories about peoples animations comming out with color shifts and flashes throughout. I know from years of experience that this is due to the compression of an already compressed file. All you guys that are proud of your 15 and 20 Mb files may have shot yourself in the foot. I wont know till I see all the results. I am attending our first Regional this weekend for this years competition. At which time I will see the results of what Autodesk produced for a judging tape.

The key is to start with a file that is as uncompressed as possible. Then they can do what ever they want and you have a better quality file to start with. Garbage In-garbage Out. You have all heard this before.

The second solution is to change the specs to D1/NTSC video frame resolution which is a 720x486 frame size- then everyone downloads Avid Meridian Codec for free and renders an 2:1 Meridien compressed QT. Then the file will be one of the best compressed files you’ll ever get and fit easily on a CD and be of such a hi-quality that you can recompress it to what ever format you want- Trust me on this- I spent years working with many file formats and compression sizes.

The only other acceptable result is for them to let us know what system they are compiling the tape on and getting a codec for that system that everyone can use as a standard. (I did ask them for this information as well as questions in a variety of other emailed questions and never once heard back form Autodesk- So much for a contact email)

#19

*Originally posted by stevek *
All you guys that are proud of your 15 and 20 Mb files may have shot yourself in the foot.
Nope, we can’t detect a single flaw in our 17MB animation. Cinepak was much more, and it looked like it had a checkerboard overlay…

#20

Nope, we can’t detect a single flaw in our 17MB animation. Cinepak was much more, and it looked like it had a checkerboard overlay…

Are you referring to your submitted animation or the display reel at a regional that you attended?

I am referring to the final output coming from Autodesk for the judging at the competition.

Almost any codec with the proper settings should look at least OK. Obviously some are better than others. But some are much better as an END USER output than as a “Working” Codec (meaning the its only being viewed by others an not being re-compressed or edited). I used Sorenson3 for our stuff at a 100% quality level. It seemed fine even on Re-compressions I made from it- But it would never ever be my first choice. And I prefer to deal in best case scenarios not lets cross our fingers and hope that it all works out scenarios.

#21

*Originally posted by stevek *
**Are you referring to your submitted animation or the display reel at a regional that you attended? **
Yeah, but the output Autodesk made didn’t seem to have any flaws either…

#22

Glad to hear- In my opinion, this was a cross your fingers and pray solution. Its not any of your faults- Its Autodesk that should know better. The only way their directions to us this year would make sence would be if they were to take the exact file we sent them and put them all onto a CD ‘as-is’ and for them to do the praying (that all the CODECs are installed on the Judging Computers) The faqct that a VHS tape showed up at the regionals last week tells me that didnt happen!

#23

*Originally posted by ditritus *
**Yeah, but the output Autodesk made didn’t seem to have any flaws either… **

Ditrius,

On 3/11/03 you stated:
" We used DivX and got the size of our final animation (without credits) down to 17mb… Which is awesome, compared to last year’s…"

Here you seem to be stating that your animation is being shown at the regional.

I specifically requested DivX and was told it was NOT ALLOWED. The listed allowable codecs were Cinepak, Indeo, and Quicktime. In Update #10 on Page 5, it specifically states the codecs allowed.

Please supply to me or post here whatever documentation you received allowing you to use DivX.

This not an attempt to intimidate or discourage. Your team apparently did not follow stated rules and if you are being judged against teams that did, this is entirely inappropriate and unfair.

#24

*Originally posted by Max3DLee *
I specifically requested DivX and was told it was NOT ALLOWED. The listed allowable codecs were Cinepak, Indeo, and Quicktime. In Update #10 on Page 5, it specifically states the codecs allowed.
Well, we listened while our mentor read off the rules that stated that you could use any codec you like.
Don’t believe it? Well, they showed our animation on the big screen, as well as in the theater at the party and at the Autodesk judging booth. That’s enough for me.

Sorry you missed out, DivX is great…

… And that’s Mr. Ditritus to you! :stuck_out_tongue:

#25

I believe your mentor was wrong.

I will research the procedures for a formal protest.

#26

*Originally posted by Max3DLee *
I believe your mentor was wrong.
A protest? That’s taking things a little far… Besides, other that the shading on the bottom of the CD due to the file size, what difference is there?

#27

MAX3DLEE- Who told you you couldnt use DivX. There was never any thing that said that. I am a mentor on My team and I read everything several times. The original rules said that we can use any Codec We like- The Update was a list of Sugestions for those that couldn’t make up their own mind. In update NUM10_Page5 They never said- Heres an update of what you NEED to use they just stated “these are some Prefered codecs” They dont say “Required”. That combined with the original rules still leaves the door wide open. This update (is also mentioned there about working in uncompressed files or image sequences and then doing only your final output in the desired Codec.

Save your breath on a protest- It isnt needed. If you want to voice an opinion as to how they can make it better- then be my guest, we all know there room to improve. But I dont see anything to Protest here!

#28

Please point me to the update or documentation that states that a team may use ANY codec the team chooses.

Your interpretation of the documentation approving ANY codec by not specifically naming one is opposite of mine, where I interpreted the update as requiring the use of Cinepak, Indeo, or Quicktime.

We need clarification.

I apologize if my response here was misunderstood to suggest that the protest I still intend to file, if there is such a thing, would be against “Mr. Ditritus’s” team. The protest I intend to file will be regarding the overall poor administration of the Animation portion of the competition.

My quick and terse reply was partly due to “Mr. Ditritus” boastful and smart-$@#$@#$@# replies posted here. His “tough noogies” reply is a prime example of poor sportsmanship and a generally bad attitude.

As to “Mr. Ditritus’s” “what’s the difference” question, this is also an example of lack of knowledge. To answer “Mr. Ditritus’s” question, there is a MAJOR difference in quality of the animation when using a lower quality codec.

But back to the original issue, we need clarification. I intend to have it.

#29

*Originally posted by Max3DLee *
Please point me to the update or documentation that states that a team may use ANY codec the team chooses.
He just did:
*Originally posted by stevek *
NUM10_Page5
A while down, it says that acceptable codecs include, but are not limited to the three you mentioned. Does that clear things up?
*Originally posted by Max3DLee *
My quick and terse reply was partly due to “Mr. Ditritus” boastful and smart-$@#$@#$@# replies posted here. His “tough noogies” reply is a prime example of poor sportsmanship and a generally bad attitude.
:confused: Since when did we start throwing insults?
I wasn’t trying to be rude, that’s why I put the :p, I was just having fun.
*Originally posted by Max3DLee *
As to “Mr. Ditritus’s” “what’s the difference” question, this is also an example of lack of knowledge. To answer “Mr. Ditritus’s” question, there is a MAJOR difference in quality of the animation when using a lower quality codec.
Once again, I missed the point where this got personal…
If you put the quality of the animation up high enough, it’ll be nearly the same quality as all the others, but just the size of a CD. I don’t think there’s such thing as a low-quality codec, because from what I know they can all be adjusted. For example, a Quicktime format can be just as sharp as DivX’s picture, it probably requires more space though… If there’s any error in that, I’m sorry, I’m not the post-production graphics guy, I work strictly on modeling and 2D work, such as maps and the credits.

#30

The update in question DOES NOT STATE “…include, but not limited to…”, it simply states “Preferred Codecs are…”