balancer out there?

Posted by Ken Leung at 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST

Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M. Gunn Senior High School.

I’ve been looking at lots of pictures of other robots, and they don’t seem to me that many of them are particularly built for balancing the bridge.

I mean, I saw a few other robots doing it, such as Wildstang’s robot… but most other robot seems to concentrate on grabbing goals or big balls or going under the bar.

Is it that easy to balancing the bridge using just the drive train? Am I missing something about the bridge that makes it easy?

So, my main question is, are there any robot out there specifically built a device that will help balancing the bridge (beside just the drive train)?

Posted by Anton Abaya at 2/14/2001 7:05 AM EST

Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NONE AT THE MOMENT! :(.

In Reply to: balancer out there?
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST:

last night i was pondering on ways to help balance the bridge considering it’s rather difficult from what i hear. the simplest way will actually work.

The problem I hear most often is that when a robot tries to balance the bridge, it has to go past the pivot point and back up a little. If not, the bridge goes down on the other side even if the robot is dead centered on the bridge.

A solution? Well, is there anything wrong with wedging something under the opposite side? Enough so that the robot balancing can balance quicker? As soon as it’s balanced, unwedge your robot and run over to the end zone. Am I missing something here?

One great place to wedge something beneath the bridge is right beside the 4" lumber near the pivot point of the bridge. If you were to attach a piece of block around 3.75" high beneath that, that will give you enough clearance to pull away but also aid in making sure the bridge doesnt go too far. Lots of weight though will be on that block so make it strong.

Am I missing something here? It’s an alliance right? Then let’s help all those bridge balancers!

-anton
“When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge.” -Albert Einstein

Posted by Joe Ross at 2/14/2001 11:49 AM EST

Engineer on team #330, Beach Bot, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA/JPL , J&F Machine, and Raytheon.

In Reply to: Helping the Bridge Balancers.
Posted by Anton Abaya on 2/14/2001 7:05 AM EST:

: A solution? Well, is there anything wrong with wedging something under the opposite side? Enough so that the robot balancing can balance quicker? As soon as it’s balanced, unwedge your robot and run over to the end zone. Am I missing something here?

: One great place to wedge something beneath the bridge is right beside the 4" lumber near the pivot point of the bridge. If you were to attach a piece of block around 3.75" high beneath that, that will give you enough clearance to pull away but also aid in making sure the bridge doesnt go too far. Lots of weight though will be on that block so make it strong.

We have played around with this and it does make it much easier to balance when you stick a 4x4 near the pivot point. The only problem is that the bridge gets unseated much more easily, especially if the drivers overshoot.

On of the teams that we are mentoring is doing this, and it may show up on our robot (we have the weight but maybe not the time).

Posted by Eric Tarnowski at 2/14/2001 8:31 AM EST

Student on team #535, G-Force, from Huntington North High School and United Technologies Electronic Controls.

In Reply to: balancer out there?
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST:

: I’ve been looking at lots of pictures of other robots, and they don’t seem to me that many of them are particularly built for balancing the bridge.

: I mean, I saw a few other robots doing it, such as Wildstang’s robot… but most other robot seems to concentrate on grabbing goals or big balls or going under the bar.

: Is it that easy to balancing the bridge using just the drive train? Am I missing something about the bridge that makes it easy?

: So, my main question is, are there any robot out there specifically built a device that will help balancing the bridge (beside just the drive train)?

We took our robot out to our playing field and were able to balance our robot and two goals on the ramp without the help of any extra devices. The ramp reaches a natural balnce on the 4x6 once you reach an equilibrium. If we can cut enough weight, we are working to add some “special” equipment that will make us even more consistant. Check out the pictures of our robot on our site with the link below.

Posted by Alan Federman at 2/14/2001 8:57 AM EST

Engineer on team #255, Odyssey, from Foothill HS, San Jose and NASA.

In Reply to: balancer out there?
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST:

practice practice practice.

I think a lots of teams will be able to balance 2 goals.

Having another robot stabilze the bridge so the balance point can be found more easily would speed things up - a slippery wedge on the far side or something to engage the lip, or Klee Klamp on the bridge, until alliance partner is balanced then a dash to the end zone. I think it will be easy to balance one goal, harder to balance two - very hard to lift the bridge from the downside even if it is unloaded.

I don’t think it will be that easy to get big balls on top of goals either - again a good mechanism and well
rehersed operators and drivers will be the key.

So my ‘perfect game’ would be 40 ball points, 40 robot points both 2 goals balance in 1.5 minutes for
720 points, (or 792 for the ball handler!)

Posted by Andy Baker at 2/14/2001 9:35 AM EST

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: Re: balancer out there?
Posted by Alan Federman on 2/14/2001 8:57 AM EST:

40 balls and 40 robot points, with 2 goals balanced in 1.5 minutes, totals…

640 or 480 points, depending on how close to 1.5 minutes all stops are pushed.

Get some sleep.

Andy B.

Posted by Rich at 2/14/2001 10:03 AM EST

Engineer on team #334, BTHS Knights, from Brooklyn Tech. HS and Con Ed, SIAC Keyspan.

In Reply to: Re: balancer out there?
Posted by Alan Federman on 2/14/2001 8:57 AM EST:

80 points x (4 + 2)multiplier = 480 pts. Total?

Posted by Jim Meyer at 2/14/2001 1:40 PM EST

Engineer on team #67, HOT Team, from Huron Valley Schools and GM Milford Proving Ground.

In Reply to: check my math?
Posted by Rich on 2/14/2001 10:03 AM EST:

: 80 points x (4 + 2)multiplier = 480 pts. Total?

The math is good. The methodology is bad. Multipliers multiply, not add.

80 x 4 X 2 = 640 pts

Our team also had some confusion on this topic but FIRST clarified in one of the updates. Seems like it was either update 2 or 3.

I hope this hasn’t affected your strategy.

Posted by Rich at 2/14/2001 2:12 PM EST

Engineer on team #334, BTHS Knights, from Brooklyn Tech. HS and Con Ed, SIAC Keyspan.

In Reply to: Re: check my math?
Posted by Jim Meyer on 2/14/2001 1:40 PM EST:

thanks,
we can now stop arguing and get back to WORK!

Team# 334

Posted by Chris Hibner at 2/14/2001 9:03 AM EST

Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.

In Reply to: balancer out there?
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST:

: I’ve been looking at lots of pictures of other robots, and they don’t seem to me that many of them are particularly built for balancing the bridge.

: I mean, I saw a few other robots doing it, such as Wildstang’s robot… but most other robot seems to concentrate on grabbing goals or big balls or going under the bar.

: Is it that easy to balancing the bridge using just the drive train? Am I missing something about the bridge that makes it easy?

: So, my main question is, are there any robot out there specifically built a device that will help balancing the bridge (beside just the drive train)?

From what I’ve been reading, our method of balancing the bridge is rather unique. As usual, we’re late with the construction, but as soon as it’s finished, I’ll post pictures (probably around 5 p.m. on Tuesday).

-Chris

Posted by Chris at 2/14/2001 9:13 AM EST

Student on team #69, HYPER Team 69 Quincy Public Schools Gillette , from North Quincy High and The Gillette Company.

In Reply to: balancer out there?
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST:

You could say that we are ment for ballancing!

Some people say that we are the ramp!

We hope to have our pics up as soon as we can!!

If you have any questions please contact me or see our website

[email protected]

Posted by Mike Soukup at 2/14/2001 2:05 PM EST

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling and Motorola.

In Reply to: Re: balancer out there?
Posted by Chris on 2/14/2001 9:13 AM EST:

: If you have any questions please contact me or see our website

I would love to go to your website, but what’s the url? The one registered at FIRST doesn’t work.

Mike

Posted by Andy Baker at 2/14/2001 10:11 AM EST

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: balancer out there?
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST:

Our software guys are using the gyro to balance our 'bot.

And with ZERO wheel slippage and alot of power, we should control our position with no trouble.

The only difficulty that we’ve had is that the bridge wants to tip one way more than the other. If we are balancing one way, the procedure is a bit different than the other.

Our bridge was made to print (ha!)… let’s hope the competition bridges are evenly balanced and all exactly the same! (ha again!)

Andy B.

Posted by Rob Zeuge at 2/14/2001 1:33 PM EST

Coach on team #121, Rhode Warrior, from University of Rhode Island and Naval Undersea Warfare Center.

In Reply to: balancer out there?
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST:

Rhode Warrior 2001 has been designed to handle the goals, but we took into condideration that other teams that we may be allied with could have the same concept. We can also provide a stopping block under the goal which will prevent tipping to the other side when one of our allied may be balancing goals. We can then drive under the bar into the end zone for points.

best of luck…

Robert Zeuge
[email protected]

Posted by PAUL GIANNOSA at 2/14/2001 11:15 PM EST

Engineer on team #27, TEAM RUSH, from OSMTECH and TEXTRON AUTOMOTIVE CO…

In Reply to: balancer out there?
Posted by Ken Leung on 2/14/2001 5:15 AM EST:

: I’ve been looking at lots of pictures of other robots, and they don’t seem to me that many of them are particularly built for balancing the bridge.

: I mean, I saw a few other robots doing it, such as Wildstang’s robot… but most other robot seems to concentrate on grabbing goals or big balls or going under the bar.

: Is it that easy to balancing the bridge using just the drive train? Am I missing something about the bridge that makes it easy?

: So, my main question is, are there any robot out there specifically built a device that will help balancing the bridge (beside just the drive train)?

Hey. coming to you live from the zone of the sleep deprivated. Team 27 has been hard at work developing our ‘bot. The core of our strategy is to balance the bridge. We have been driving the chassis -6 wheeler- for about 3 weeks. The rest has taken time. We spent alot of time on the Auotcad tubes and CATIA tubes designing the whole system for a change. Imagine having real prints with real dimensions!
Any way, back to the point, forgive me running on 20 min. sleep. We have the “CLAW” to grab the goals. We have the multipurpose arm to support the goal, clear bals from under bridge, and manipulate the bridge as “gatekeeper” via bridge post. The core of the machine is the “moon lander” which grabbs the bridge post, shoots down two 2"x 12" cyclinders which touch the floor. We use them to push the bridge to a balanced position, then use high flutin’ gyrotechnics to translate the bot with two goals attached into a free balanced position. once balanced, we pull up the moon lander and hit that little red button with all the fury of 6 weeks of frantic creation can muster into a single swoop of the hand. Ahy! What a mouthful!! We still have to prove out the moonlander, but hey if she don’t work we’ll see ya in the endzone!! Sheddiing parts on the way!!