That’s exactly what I’m getting at. Any one of those needs to be arranged well in advance; and then what do you do with the crate while you’re at the event? (I’m not exactly certain a drayage facility would allow a few people in to open a crate, remove stuff, close the crate, return a few days later, and reverse the process, either.)
What I would suggest is that one or two teams in the area of any given event make themselves available as “ship targets”; that is, places that teams needing to ship for whatever weird reason can send their crates to. Ideally, the teams receiving the crates would also have a transport vehicle for 2-3 robots (and if it’s rented, then it’s only fair that the teams who ship there at least help with fuel) and take all the robots to the venue. It’s probably the “least pain” method, and it increases the work for multiple teams, but it ought to work fairly well.
It would be a wise idea for the “ship targets” to be
a) close to the competition venue (like 190 for the WPI Regional, or a team in downtown DC for the DC regional…)
b) well publicized by FIRST. It would make the teams in the UK, Brazil, etc very happy. And FIRST would get brownie points from all of us in the US.
This might be a silly way of looking at it, but if you have already signed up for the regional, and there aren’t any regionals that have spots left and a shipping presence, I think they would work with you from there, wouldn’t they? Also, leaving the reigning CCA out in the cold like that would cause a big stink.
In addition to that, I think you could find a way to ship the robot to a local team, and pick it up on Wednesday night.
I really hope that doesn’t happen to you and everything works out.
You may not be assured exemption from now, but I think the above is a pretty good standard to consider. For example, Team 359 will have to cross an ocean for any regionals (except Hawai’i) that they attend; therefore, they will almost certainly receive an exemption from BaT for all of those regionals, if requested.
Any team that would consider Bag-and-Tag such a hassle that they’d choose to bag, crate, ship to a trusted acceptor, arrive at the competition’s location early, pick up the robot from that acceptor on Wednesday, and finally find a way to get the robot from the first place to the other, will probably be granted an exemption, because they would need an exceptional reason to choose the gruelling, described option.
Regarding the denial of a bag and tag exemption, provided that the decision is rendered around late December/early January, it’s more of an inconvenience/expense than a crisis. I’m sure FIRST will help you get in touch with private shipping contractors and someone to hold it for you.
On another note, I wonder if FIRST has a formal plan for enforcement of the bag and tag procedures? Something like requiring submission of photographs of the robots (in the open, and then bagged and sealed) and tags on ship day, with copies to the regionals. Maybe even a procedure for appointed representatives to drop in on short notice to verify compliance. The honour system does work pretty well, but there were some reports of suspicious actions that undermine the integrity of the competition.
You still need a crate for the Championship. Want to bet there will be a mad scramble for teams that didn’t think they would qualify at their final-week regionals to put together a crate on Sunday so that they can ship to St. Louis? (Not a huge problem as long as someone, maybe the regional director, has put some advance planning into it.)
Logistically, anything but honor system is a nightmare. For those who don’t know, the ‘tags’ for bag and tag are basically numbered zip ties. Assuming the technology isn’t there to have electronic tracking of the zip ties( ) here’s an idea I just came up with:
Give teams 6 ‘tags’, each with the same number(IIRC it was a random number of 5 or 6 characters, I don’t know if it was the same for all teams)
By midnight bag+tag night, require teams to submit a picture of the robot in the bag, as well as a picture up close of the seal on the bag, along with the extra 6 zip ties.
For MAR and FiM, require the same for each time teams use the work periods, maybe even have work periods be ‘activated’ through TIMS
It could work, though I imagine the idea of 1000+ teams trying to upload their pictures through TIMS one the same day could possibly be a nightmare if teams all wait until late-night, but it’s an idea.
Logistically, anything but honor system is a nightmare. For those who don’t know, the ‘tags’ for bag and tag are basically numbered zip ties. Assuming the technology isn’t there to have electronic tracking of the zip ties( ) here’s an idea I just came up with:
Give teams 6 ‘tags’, each with the same number(IIRC it was a random number of 5 or 6 characters, I don’t know if it was the same for all teams)
By midnight bag+tag night, require teams to submit a picture of the robot in the bag, as well as a picture up close of the seal on the bag, along with the extra 6 zip ties.
For MAR and FiM, require the same for each time teams use the work periods, maybe even have work periods be ‘activated’ through TIMS
It could work, though I imagine the idea of 1000+ teams trying to upload their pictures through TIMS one the same day could possibly be a nightmare if teams all wait until late-night, but it’s an idea.[/quote]
Reading what I wrote, I realize that I wasn’t clear that I didn’t intend both of those possibilities to be implemented—one is sufficient. Also, I don’t mean for every robot to be independently verified. The mere threat—plus a small sample per regional, chosen by impartial people with an eye to practical considerations—should have a strong deterrent effect.
Your idea about photographing the robots and tags is basically exactly what I was suggesting. If the officials know roughly what a robot looks like on ship day, and can see which tag to expect (and inspect for tampering) at the event, it’s much harder to fake it.
Aside: If you really want to track the tags electronically, you could equip them with tamper-evident RFID stickers like they use in consumer goods. I’m not sure what good that would do, though.
Perhaps I should’ve been more specific.
The issue is not that FIRST wouldnt make exceptions for teams in our situation, but rather the timing.
Last year, our team attended a bag-tag event at NYC. We werent officially notified until late December that arrangements would be made.
Given the deadline from Bill on December 2, 2011, they would then see what teams have requested for an exemption. Planning a trip for 30+ people ideally isnt done a month or 2 in advance. Once we sign up for a regional, we spend the next several days already making reservations/payments for travel expenses.
I booked our trip early last year, since it was quite obvious with the no. of teams that came from other countries and distances similar to ours, that a drayage site/arrangement would be made. There were other issues that came up with our participation in NY that we’d much rather avoid again. After saying this was going to be our last bag/tag event we ever did last year, I guess not…
Glenn,
We’ll be happy to accept/hold your robot here at our school and get it to the Queen City Regional and then help you ship it to the CMP in St Louis afterward…It would be awesome to have your amazing team competing in our new regional!
Considering that this is a high school robotics competition, and one that preaches professional values as its core tenant, I would hope that the honor system is enough. I question the sanity, even moreso than the morality, of anyone who cheats to win a plastic trophy from a competition for 15-18 year olds.
Moreover, if someone wants to cheat, there are plenty of other ways they could do it. Bringing in more than the witholding allowance, lying about cost, a myriad of robot-related modifcations, etc. I guess my point is, “cheaters gonna cheat” - don’t put any more burden on the vast majority of honest teams (or on already-overburdened volunteers) to worry about it.
If you sign up for the Queen City Regional and you are not able to get an exemption. I will personally except the crate at my home and bring it with me in our team trailer for load in.
Jared is on the money here. If you don’t abide by the honor system, there’s not much reason for you to compete in something where the real engineering challenge is to do incredible things on such a tight deadline. You will end up cheating yourself of the experience.
We haven’t had any reported incidents so far, so I don’t expect any.
For the past two years we have had to ship our robot to the CMP from the home of team 1241, Rick Hansen SS in Mississauga Ontario, because FedEx does not offer shipping to our city. Last year a team from Mexico who attended GTR also had their crate shipped to Rick Hansen both in and out, and I would guess this is how the process would work for other teams who can’t bring a robot with them. We had qualified the week before and brought the crate with us to GTR in a pickup, but in 2010 there was a team that didn’t have one, and had to borrow one from a local team. We have to ship to a warehouse in Toronto on the way back, so a local company can pick it up and truck it home where FedEx doesn’t cover.
Without naming any names or places, this isn’t true. At least one regional had a rookie team that didn’t know they were supposed to stop building. Another team at another event unbagged longer than allowed. In one particular case, a team blatantly modified their robot after ship date.
) here’s an idea I just came up with: