[BB] Bills Blog 07/08/11

FIRST General Forum
#21

No offense, but NO.

FIRST has continued to cut costs and that has directly impacted the value that the teams receive. I think it’s time they start taking a VERY VERY close look at their own organization, and looking at efficiencies, or lack thereof, before they go after one of the primary reasons (and reminders) of why so many teams compete.

Hey, you could move on to what Ford does now, and is roundly ridiculed. Email us digitally-signed certificates because paper, nevermind an actual award, is just far to expensive.

#22

It’s time to consider removing the ability to attend championship without having qualified through some means.

#23

Maybe a 2006 style high goal, or maybe taller robots:p

I hope they don’t make the trophies smaller, maybe they could redesign it to be more impressive (possibly), larger (or at least the same size), and within their budget, whatever that happens to be.

#24

I’ve been thinking about Champs.

Assume a 360 team maximum capacity. Subtract the World Champions (3), HoF (15), and Sustaining teams (6) and you get 336 spots.

Let’s be conservative and reserve 6 spots for special additions to the Championship (i.e. the rare 4th regional winner), to round to an even 330.

Michigan has just under 180 teams in their district, and they get 18 spots at the Championship. Right now, all of FRC could fit in just 12 districts of that size. Account for a few years of growth and some odd-sized districts and say that we plan for 16 districts of 180 teams each. That’s enough for 2880 teams, and at our rate of growth that will last us quite awhile.

If the only things that qualify you for the championship are those 16 districts, you only need 288 spots reserved. This leaves 42 spots for open registration, even assuming an ideal FRC that has 2,880 teams!

Not only that, but well over half of the event will be there based on their robot’s performance, making the Championship more competitive AND more accessible.

#25

Exactly. Whats the point of competing if you get nothing to bring home lauding your success? I thought the kids came first? Just being there isnt enough. Schools recognize coming home with a trophy.
When they shrunk the trophies a few years ago it was a mistake. I cant believe that for all the registration money collected this is the best way they can find to cut costs.

Maybe FIRST should look into better trophy suppliers than taking this direction.

#26

This is really making me begin to wonder where the moneys flowing.

Look I get it, this is not a cheap program, and it requires money. However, something just doesn’t add up to me. We’re paying about $5000 an event per team, there’s thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of dollars rolling in with sponsorship, a decent amount of the KOP is donated, and yet we’re still getting less?

I really don’t think the issue here is the money coming in. I think FIRST needs to take a big look at their budget and take a look at what there spending their money on and who there spending it with.

#27

If we are talking about efficiencies, giving out two trophies is NOT efficient as some (most?) teams won’t ‘use’ both trophies. Perhaps FIRST should give out 1 trophy at the event but allow teams to order the second one at a discounted price or free. This way teams that want the second trophy (to give to sponsors) can still get it while FIRST doesn’t have to pay for the second trophy if its just going to sit in a box.

FIRST does already allow teams to purchase additional medals, trophies and banners here: http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2011_Assets/2011_Trophy_Medallion_Reorder_Form.pdf

#28

If that is the chosen route, I’d like to see the full size trophies come back.

#29

I understand how a team gets a spot at championships. What I was trying to illustrate is that in a world where championships is 6 times overflowing with teams will also be a world where we are having 330 regionals/events. Most of the problems I hear about districts for now is getting to an event that is close to outlier teams in a district(upper peninsula for Michigan, upstate new york when thinking a possible NYC district). Even if 30 regional are outside the U.S., that still allows for 6 regional a state. For this size having a district in your back yard and one you could get to easily would seem possible for every team

#30

Maybe FIRST just needs to contract with AndyMark for the trophies. I’m sure Andy would somehow be able to supply really cool big trophies for a fraction of whatever FIRST is paying whoever for them currently. :smiley:

#31

I am completely up for FIRST trying to watch its money, and I do recognize that the number of teams that don’t maximize use of the second trophy for whatever reason is non-zero. If it absolutely had to be an either/or situation, I’d say cut the second trophy.

That said, and I’m commenting to this effect on Bill’s Blog directly, why not re-examine the design of the trophy from top to bottom? The current design is definitely not the original, and I imagine we as a community can come up with a set of trophies that improves upon the current in cost, weight, and/or durability without making them less visually appealing. (How many freshmen have not held it by the base?)

#32

It’d be nice if members of the off season committees would provide an idea of what percentage of their budget they allot for trophies/awards or recognition certificates for the events. It’s frustrating to see this concern/complaint arise consistently without understanding why it impacts the budget so drastically that it is a top priority consideration for cutbacks. It is my belief that the sponsors who receive the trophies are very appreciative and some create beautiful showcases for them. I know that N.I. has a beautiful showcase that houses our trophies that we’ve given to them. It’s always a pleasure to see that and to share it with our guests and new parents and team members. Very special.

I’d love to see AndyMark create a design… goosebumps just thinking about it.

Jane

#33

If they aren’t already, how would we feel about trophies made in China? That would spark a rather interesting discussion.

#34

How big/nice are the Vex trophies?

#35

Probably relative to the size of their robots :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: I’m wrong. The only Vex trophy I had ever seen was smaller than the standard trophy. I was not implying that Vex robots are inferior.

#36

2ft tall by 1ft wide or so

#37

Is the cost to compete relative to the size of the robot too? How about the quality of learning?

#38

Many companies lend their namesake to awards. (Autodesk, Motorola, Delphi, etc.)

Do these companies pay to have their company mentioned during award ceremonies or is it because of the other sponsorships they offer (Kit parts)?

If it is a paid sponsorship, has inflation (or any other price raises I can’t think of*) changed the price so drastically that FIRST has to face this ultimatum?

If the naming in by paid sponsorship, could the price be raised? If the company doesn’t want to pay, offer it publicly. (I am already eyeing the Andy Baker something technical Award)

Speaking of Andy… Doesn’t he make great IRI trophies? Maybe source the trophies from inside FIRST?

*Edit: After some more thinking, I suppose the increase event number calls for an increase of trophies needed.

#39

You’re on, Bill.

I’ll start a new thread, linking back here, and see how many ideas can be collected for such an idea. I’ve got one idea already.

Edit: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1068506 is the thread.

#40

I can’t wait until IFI starts their FRC sized competition and quickly overtakes FRC.

I know many have pointed out (even Dave Lavery) that competition among programs is a lost cause with each having such small overall marketshare, but some motivation for FIRST would be nice.