Benefits of Ground Pickup in 2019

Does anyone have video showing a match was won due to the benefits of floor pickup?

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Maybe this Techfire match? They pick up a few hatch panels that if they went back to the human player for, they might have run out of time to score the extra 3 points they needed to win. Also 225 might be the only robot who can pick up faster from the ground.

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This also led to them having their HP slide the hatches through the cargo slot right onto the ground because it was faster than them loading from the hatch loading station. (Not sure if that’s shown in that match, i didnt watch it yet)

That 225 robot is slick.

3USgt2g

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I believe that 1325 did similar to 225 with the passing of the hatches through the cargo slot so they felt that it would be faster for them to get them off the ground.

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I’m not taking shots at anyone.

Floor pickup versus not is the classic FRC case study that is often widely misinterpreted year to year.

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1325 won this match by 1 point, just before they run to the HAB they pick up a fumbled hatch and place it on the nearside of the cargoship. Earlier in the match their human player is able to save them half a cycle by rolling a hatch most of the way to the rocket. Their floor pickup is considerably faster than most teams’ loading station pickups.

All that being said, it’s really hard to definitively prove a specific feature is responsible for winning a specific match, but I think this is about as close as you could get.

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This year especially. In early weeks it was seen by a lot of teams as a huge requirement and that frequently turned into a huge time sink for a difficult problem that proved to have very little reward in the season. Even smaller reward compared to other floor pickups in other years.

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I saw 5172 pickup HP from the floor at Carson field in world’s. They were rank 1. It was so unexpected I had to watch how they got the hatch panels in the field.

I saw more matches where a loading station stopped being able to stage hatch panels than I saw a team pick up hatch panels from the floor.

We at least got the extra RP here because of ground pickup. We would have gotten the win too because of it, but for one foul against our alliance.

Ground pickup enabled us to quickly utilized hatches dropped by us, or our alliance, which was useful in completing rockets with variable alliance partners. It probably helped us get RPs, and maybe some ties, more so than wins. Definitely a ‘nice to have’ and not a ‘need to have’ capability.

However (and this is a BIG however) it did take a lot of prototyping and development time to get this mechanism to a point where we were happy with it. It is likely not a smart undertaking for many teams. It might not have even been a smart undertaking for us!

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Designed a floor pickup for the hatches. Took it off for our first regional. In hindsight- it never would have gotten used anyway. It was a diminishing return in regards to cycle times.

Basic premise was similar to a 2017 gear intake — Leading edge was thin Poly & there was an Active roller for active hold on the game piece. Worked well, just did not end up working into our strategic design.

Absolutely, 3512 fell victim to that this year suffered greatly because of it, although not due to a lack of trying on my part :roll_eyes:

That said, you can always examine the methods of constructing a floor intake independent of it’s usefulness.

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Ha, you lead right into my follow up question.

For teams that changed match outcomes with a floor hatch… How many less gamepieces per match were you scoring that 1114 and 2056? Would the time have been better spent on tuning and practice?

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I split this discussion of the benefits of ground pickup from the discussion of how to design a ground pickup: Ground pickup of hatches

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If you are picking up your own dropped game pieces then it likely would have been better to spend time on making a mechanism that doesn’t drop game pieces. However there isn’t a whole lot you can do to reduce the amount of game pieces your partner drops.

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I would wager that the time spent fumbling with that hatch right in front of the cargo ship costed them any time they saved not going back to HP on other cycles. If that transition had been smooth, I’d agree with the statement that their ground pickup won them that match.

No Video, But I saw several hatches come off of the rocket when the cargo was placed. A couple of times it was picked up and put back on. I also saw once that an alliance descored their own cargo ship hatch. That meant that it would be quite effective for any alliance partner to re score it. I don’t remember if someone did…

Back in week one our elevator+intake wasn’t fully tuned, so some matches we’d have issues scoring. We had one match which right out of the gate was a 2v3. Our elevator code was having issues, so we switched to our ground hatch pickup, placed 1-2 hatches and won the match by one point.

Although we later took off the ground hatch (total time sink), it was at least useful once.

Although in hindsight if we just spent the time tuning the elevator or on drive practice instead of the ground hatch, the problem probably would never have occurred.

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No idea man–strategic choices early on made us (try) to pick up both game pieces internally, and drove the robot everyone saw on field. Obviously we accomplished that for just the hatches, and if I remember correctly we only used that ‘other side of the field’ capability in 1 match. It kind of reminded me of the robot we built to pull step totes down in 2015, which also was only ever used in 1 match. Sometimes you just build something with extra functions that you don’t really get anything out of.

Not sure how much better we could ultimately do with another robot–we got very close to matching our performance last year. It could also be that the floor pickup benefited us, but wouldn’t have done much for other teams. No idea. For all the time it saved us at the loading station, we spent a lot of time placing hatches on the cargo ship/rocket.

I’ll also add that we benefited tremendously by the early season rule change that allowed human players to shake the loading station. We would have had to burn a lot more time fiddling with our loading station hatch mechanism.

EDIT: I will add that one of the reasons we were very adamant about having a ground pickup early in the season was insurance in case this game turned into something like 2017 gears, where we frequently wished we had one but didn’t.