Bosch Motors

Now that we know that the 2004 Bosch motors and transmissions will not be supplied for 2005, what do you think we will get?

I like the Dewalt motors supplied with the XRP trannsmission.

I think that we will get another version of a Bosch motor…although with all of the stuff I’ve heard about Chief Delphi’s robot, I’d be more than glad to get those DeWalt trannies.

…unless anyone’s heard anything about Mr. Baker being contacted by FIRST.

I’ve heard something about Sears getting involved next season. Maybe something going on with Sears/ Craftsman… :confused:

A quick search on prices for drill motors only on toolpartsdirect.com yeils the following prices.

(All 12V Drills btw.)
Current Bosch Drill motor - $27

Potential new ones:
Skil - $27
Dewalt - $35
Black and Decker - $48
Makita - $46
Hitachi - $89

So, All drills are not created equally.

If cost is an issue, I don’t see why they are changing to anything other than the current or the Skil brand motor.

Only time will tell.

Whatever they give us I hope they get the specs ready up front. Figures they’d change it now that we’re selling kits for the old ones, and designs abound…
Hopefully we can still count on the CIM’s, windows, globes and vans (we never use that seat motor). Although those window motor parts are hard to work with.
Seems like if they went through the trouble of making the motor mounts and worm transmission setups, they would keep a drill motor/transmission in the kit. So I doubt they’ll drop it. I think the most important thing in the past has been getting the pinion gear info available from looking at the archives. Last year they did a good job with the power curves etc.

OK… I was browsing the ifi robotics site and found this http://www.ifirobotics.com/victor-885-speed-controller-robots.htm the new Victor speed controller that runs at 24 volts. Then I looked at the tag and it says “innovation first victor 885” not “ifi robotics victor 885”. This led me to believe that the FIRST might be switching over to 24 volts. Now first is selling all the 12 volt motors at the yard sale and this current email. Do you think that this could be true or not?

If I read IFIRobotics’ page on the 885 correctly, the 885 is a higher-current 883. I once emailed IFI about that controller, and they said that the 884 is what they plan on sticking in the kit next year.

Although the best comparison, IMHO, is head-to-head-to-head. The 883 could handle 60 amps continuous. The 884 only does 40, which is fine for FIRST purposes. The 885 does 120–which if memory serves me right is the breaker’s limit on the FIRST robot. (Correct me if I’m wrong on that…it’s been a while since I’ve seen Bob.)

Therefore, if we were to see an 885 in the kit next year, we’d also be seeing either a new or vastly upgraded electrical system. And this is assuming we stay at 12 volts. I severely doubt that we’ll have a 24v robot next year. If we do, then we’ve just hit the next generation.

i doubt we’ll go up to 24V. then everything will be faster, stronger, and will need to be more beefed up, and also the seat motors, window motors, etc which run on 12v will be harder to use. cars are 12v mostly… and the cost of each of the motors will go up… i think… and that will mean we need 2 batteries… or new 24v ones. which i doubt…

This creates an interesting situation where the controversy of the pre-built transmission company will probably not be an issue. Without the knowledge of the motor, it’s preetty difficult to build the transmission.

I own an 18V 1/2" Ryobi drill. I don’t know if they make a 12V model but this thing is absolutely fantastic I haven’t taken in apart yet but I’ve tried shifting it both up and down numerous times while running under lots of different rpms and it never complained even once. Seamless transition between gears even while runing at full speed and downshifting. Runs fast, smooth, and true. We have a Dewalt 14.4V 3/8" that we use to build robots and that thing is a piece of junk. I swear it’s going to give out any day now. It wobbles and makes strange noises.

I buy all Dewalt tools and have found them (And Milwaukee) to be extremely reliable. Go to most job sites and you will see Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Makita in the hands of most of the builders. My experience has been that they are anything BUT junk. Maybe someone dropped yours too many times? Ryobi definitely has some great value for the money also.

My $0.02
I think most of you are looking at this the wrong way. I forsee very different motors next year. We are 12 volt because of commonality and availability of automotive parts so I’m fairly certain that won’t change. I do however think the change will be to smaller and less powerful motors for a variety of reasons, primarily safety and leveling the field between vets and rookies. I think the most powerful motor we have next year won’t be more than an FP. Well see in January I guess.
-Pete

while i agree with you that first is conserened with safty i know that FIRST needs good coverage in the news and on tv so while smaller motors would make the game more of a challenge but nothing sells robotics like a rough and tumble match where a robot gets smashed

btw i heard there will be NO kit of parts this year for veteran teams
:ahh:

I put my money on the CIM motor still being in the kit, someone paid some money to get us a custom output shaft and I think it will stay around for a little while. Smaller motors and less powerful robots will be BORING in my opinion, a fast pace is what keeps people out there interested. If everything moves to smaller AND less powerful motors it will be a step in the wrong direction from my view. Also the size of the motors in the KOP should have no difference between a rookie team and a veteran. A veteran team with resources will use whatever is in the kit to the max abilities.

I hope FIRST keeps it at least at the level it is currently at if not even more powerful.

Actually, the automobile industry is very interested in moving to higher voltage electrical systems. With the amount of power being used by an ever-increasing number of accessories, wire weight is becoming a real issue. Higher voltages permit the same power to be conveyed using lower current, so thinner wires are practical. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see 42-volt electrical systems becoming common in the next five to ten years.

Familiarity with the motors is what I meant. All new motors means we all have to figure out how to use them and their capabilities from scratch. I am for this because I want FIRST to throw us a curve ball this year.

It looks like the reason FIRST is dropping the Bosch drills is that Bosch no longer makes a 1/2" 12V drill. I’m hoping they go with something like the DeWalt DC980KA motor and transmission. Three speeds would be nice, as would a 4:1 ratio between high and low gears.

I for one would like to see the jump to a 24 volt electrical system…MORE POWER! :smiley: and yea, with less current, the wire size can decrease, and we can have more weight for the bigger motors! or other functional devices.

This is true…however, consider this:

Which is lighter, an extra battery (or the difference between the current batteries and a 24v version) or the extra wire required to handle the current current?

ok ok, you got me. we probably wont be seeing any savings in weight going to a 24 volt system. :o but think about the extra power, and what we could do with it! :cool: