Burt Rutan - Is Climate Change caused by Mankind?

Corporations just pass the cost on to the consumer. The entire concept of a carbon tax rallies around the consumer, Main St, being the catalyst for change, as consumer spending makes up about 80% of the economy. Every price increase due to a carbon tax would be passed on to the consumer, and the consumer would be the one directly benefiting from the rebate check (and any profits if they reduce their use of carbon). Any increases in price that secondary producers in industry would incur from buying things from primary producers would again be passed onto the consumer.

Basically, it would take all the hidden costs of carbon/pollution that are currently buried in the system, and directly tie them into prices. Consumers would see this, and then use market forces to choose the cheapest/best product, which nine times out of ten would probably be the one that took less carbon to produce it (and thus, lower cost).

Because economically, cap-and-trade will do nothing to actually reduce pollution.

Think about it. By putting an industrial price on carbon, and allowing companies to “sell” carbon credits, you put a value on carbon which is directly tied to demand. Companies which reduce their pollution can sell credits to companies which don’t.

But what happens if all companies were to reduce their carbon footprint? The carbon markets would be flooded with supply, and the carbon market would completely collapse. There’s just no incentive for the entire economy as a whole to reduce the carbon output under cap and trade, except for the fact that carbon traders on Wall St would profit off price increases on Main St.

The point of environmental legislation should be to reduce pollution, not perpetuate it under false pretenses.

Let’s compare this to a carbon tax. Let’s say everyone reduces their carbon emissions, through greener measures. The amount of money collected by the carbon tax would be less, so the rebate everyone would receive would again be less. But this isn’t a problem, as the rebate (and potential to profit) is designed to get us “over the hump” to move from a fossil fuel economy to a greener industry. Once we’re on the other side of that hump, there will be a point where continuing to go greener will become a matter of declining return on investment. Economic market-forces would drive the system into a system equilibrium between cost of carbon and declining ROI.

Thus, there wouldn’t be any point to embark on any green action which lacked economic feasibility. So rather than set hard goals for pollution reduction, it would simply let the system itself work out the best possible reduction in pollution for the prices people are willing to pay. Depending on what the value of carbon is set at (let’s say it slowly increases over fifty years until it permanently plateaus), the economy will find the best solution on its own (and a slowly increasing tax over time would give enough time for engineers and scientists in R&D to come up with newer, better technology without breaking the bank).

That’s the beauty of the system, you don’t need to. We know scientifically that a ton of coal emits X amount of CO2 when burned, that oil emits Y amount of CO2 when burned, etc. Yes, there are technologies to scrub some of the harmful pollutants from the combustion process, but these are already covered by existing regulations.

Here is a link to the papers:
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monthly_report/sppi_monthly_co2_report_july.html
and
http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091030151749AAZ40e5

Here is a link to papers done by Dr. Richard Lindzen of MIT:
http://www.heartland.org/events/WashingtonDC09/PDFs/Lindzen.pdf

  1. Unplug chargers (think cell phones and iPods) when not in use. Only 5% of the power drawn by a cell phone charger is used to charge the phone. The other 95% is wasted when it is left plugged into the wall.

Even when there is nothing plugged into the charger? this is good info not only to save energy but to save money.

mark

Yep. :slight_smile: But it will only be a penny here or there, it will take many of us doing these little things to have a true impact!

This may be how politics works, but it is not how science works. As an example take the “debates” over whether vaccines cause autism. Even though the science shows the that there is no link, the media will, or used to, find someone to support the other side. The presence of an opposing viewpoint does not affect an argument’s veracity.

Also, I have heard multiple times on the NPR station I listen to that a carbon tax and rebate would be more effective than a cap and trade system. The cap and trade system can be gamed because it rewards reductions in CO2, not the actual amount released, so some businesses might increase their emissions before implementation so that they can later “reduce” them.

Taxing carbon at a rate too low, however, could actually increase emissions, or decrease any current reductions, because it turns the problem of climate change from a social problem(save the planet for our children) to an economic problem(we need to save money be cutting our emissions). The analogy I heard was of a plate of ten cookies. If ten people each want ten cookies, and if the cookies are free people will be mindful and only take one cookie. If, however, the cookies are five cents each, then the first person to find the plate will buy all of them, since he or she thinks that by paying for them he or she does not think he or she is hurting anyone.

Unfortunately, global warming and how to stop it have been pushed into the political realm.

The three things I’d most like to see in the entire debate are:

  1. Complete data for as far back as there are accurate records of any kind–nobody’s been willing to provide that, that I’ve seen, on either side of the debate
  2. As complete data as possible showing how humans and their activities are involved in the warming/cooling/whatever it is
  3. A science-based solution, not some apparently random governmental regulation. And by science-based, I mean one that looks at all sides of the issue if possible.

Guess what I have no hope of ever seeing? Yeah, that’s right, #1 and #2 above. #3 is a little more hopeful…if the politicians can figure out which one to implement this year.

While I definitely agree with the anecdote you provided, there is a good deal of debate in science. That’s the whole point of peer-reviews. And very rarely is one side of the peer-review journal debates is 100% correct and the other side 100% incorrect.

Not exactly. When the output of a transformer has a high impedance (i.e., it’s not connected or drawing any current) the input also sees that high impedance, effectively becoming an open circuit.

You can try this with a Kill-o-watt device, or (if you are supremely careful) with a digital ammeter. Charging, the current is a few milliamps; idle the current falls to the microampere level. 100 uA*120V=.012 Watt, or just over 1 kWh per decade. At 14 cents a kWh, the savings isn’t too much.

That doesn’t invalidate the idea of unplugging things you don’t need to use: A pancil sharpener I have draws 40 mA when idle, do the math on that one!

If it is indeed a problem, and there is indeed something to be done about it, devices that draw several milliwatts are not a significant part of the solution. Societies that stop using gigawatts are.

I’ve seen the entire thing. While ‘Inconvenient Truth’ ruined slideshows for me, Rutan did have his stuff together, and he approached the subject in a way that most do not.

I am a ‘skeptic’ but I simply find climatalogical data to be of insufficient scale and scope for a true conclusion to be drawn.