C10 and sharing cameras

My reading of C10 would preclude the use of secondary screens which would be shared with Alliance partners in order to allow them to see a camera view of their robot for, say, alignment for the endgame. To be clear, I was thinking it would be advantageous to use multiple monitors for different cameras on a robot, and have one of those monitors given to an alliance partner drive team, so they could watch their robot drive in certain situations. I do not think this would be legal, as it would need to be tethered and C10 forbids this. Is this your interpretation also? Thanks.

I have no authority to interpret the rule, but the blue box seems to make it pretty clear that it’s a safety thing.

From that perspective - looking at a monitor on someone else’s drive station surely isn’t problematic. However, having to drape wires or create trip hazards in order to accomplish it probably is illegal.

FMS whitepaper, since teams are all on their own VLAN, I don’t think there’s an easy way to directly share mjpg streams between alliance members. As team, I think it would be nifty to have this ability, but don’t put me in charge of orchestrating the security and network bandwidth implications…

As to alternates… I’ve seen teams use small projectors to do heads-up displays… perhaps there’s some way to project an image onto a teammates driverstation? Seems difficult, but not impossible…

This is a brilliant idea. I have seen many teams in the past using extra monitors. Here is a thought. What if you set up one (or two) monitors on the edge of your driver station out of the way of drivers such that they were mounted on swivels. If they are not too large, they should be out of your way, and if they are large enough, they should be helpful for the other team(s).
Remember, you do not have a say over which driver station you are in, so two monitors only help if you are in the center, or if people from the alliance partners (could be a good human player /drive coach job for endgame) are positioned to help.

No, it’s not a problem to stand in your station and look left/right to see another screen from a rules perspective… but have you seen the layout of the driver stations this year? The scoring and human player stations split them up, which would make looking at another team’s monitors difficult. And the blue box provides a reasonable limitation that makes going over there to look (with the controllers) isn’t going to work. The coach or human player could go there and take a look and shout back instructions, but that’s probably about it.

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Were the HUDs bright enough to see? That could be really helpful.

Indeed. It would be difficult… and I can’t think of a meaningful way of making it happen. I should say bad wording on my part - Not problematic as far as C10 is concerned, but definitely problematic in terms of actual sightlines.

I have a distinct recollection of seeing it in person, but I’ll be darned if I could recall what team it was…

Basically they had rigged up a system of mirrors, a projector, and a piece of plexiglass to where the projector put some simple numbers and images onto the plexiglass. Lots of 2x4’s and plywood. The driver station took up almost the full allowable volume, looked like a pain to lug around, and was required to be plugged in to work at all.

I also don’t recall how (or if) they solved the problem of spill light from the projector blinding their alliance partners.

Still per Jon’s post, throwing light across to another driver station will not be a trivial task.

If I understand what you’re suggesting, keep in mind that per R91, the operator console can’t be deeper than 14 in which means you can’t swivel they can’t stick out at all. Additionally the side driver stations are angled, so unfortunately, I don’t know if this solution will really be too helpful.

And just to be clear, we can’t wifi an image in, right. I wonder if we could use a cell signal and an iPad type device to send another team our camera feed?

Wireless networks are a HARD no. See H1.v. No wifi, no bluetooth, no rf, just no…

Are you thinking of something similar to what 2451 did in 2015?

Unfortunately, none of that will work either.

R92. Other than the system provided by the FIELD, no other form of wireless communications shall be used to communicate to, from, or within the OPERATOR CONSOLE.


Is a projected image a violation, then?

I would say no. A projected image is really no different than a laptop screen - both are devices that project light. The difference is in where they project it and the intensity of that projection… but I don’t think we want to start trying to set boundaries on that.

Edit to add: Not a violation of that rule. Other rules may come into play, like the generic safety rule or the rule about interfering with vision systems if the intensity and/or direction of the project causes issues.

That looks super familiar. 2015 was my first year, and I likely crossed paths with them at Midwest. I have this distinct recollection that a 2x4 was involved, so this may not be exactly it. But it looks close.

If only:


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14 inches leaves space for a large enough monitor though. But yes, that could be a problem. The ones I have seen thus far are about 7". If people are close, that is large enough.

Cell service is unreliable in events, and engineering a non-latency stream over 3g (the best you would assume) is probably not worth the hassle.

You could perhaps use sensors, vision, and lights to create a code. Something like a traffic like but for lining up. It will take some work, but much less than dealing with sell coverage.
~Mr. R^2

Cannot bring bring a cell phone into the ARENA under H1.v unless you plan on making the case that it does not use “enabled wireless electronic communication”. Do people have phones in their pockets (I would bet on it), would you have issues if you built one into your strategy… I almost guarantee it. R92 already disallows it to be part of your CONSOLE.

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I do guarantee it. Even if it’s not part of the OPERATOR CONSOLE, you run into H1 which states, in part, that any items brought into the ARENA:

v. do not include any form of enabled wireless electronic communication

While R92 helps you avoid issues before getting to your match, H1 can result in a yellow card on the field!

I wonder what we are left with as options? Projection screens, mirrors, turning monitors, and yelling is what I can think of