FIRST is asking questions as to what we want. Please consider the poll .
I like the 3 practice matches, mainly for the reason of time. I know that this year my team destroyed 2 gearboxes in the final matches at a regional, and we needed the time to repair them.
Now if there was a way to get the more seeding matches and still have the same amount of work/practice time…
Honestly, it went well this year, so I opted for the first option (As-is). One practice match was never and never will be enough to work any kinks out of a robot (especially those attending only one regional); zero is just not acceptable :). Leave this aspect of the competition as it is and work on other stuff, like the game :).
The way to get teams a chance at playing more matches is to increase field throughput, not take away practice matches.
Add fields, or add robots to the fields.
*Originally posted by M. Krass *
**The way to get teams a chance at playing more matches is to increase field throughput, not take away practice matches.Add fields, or add robots to the fields. **
They did say something about possibly having additional practice fields for all teams to use.
*Originally posted by Mike Martus *
**They did say something about possibly having additional practice fields for all teams to use. **
If they were to make additional, non-scheduled practice fields available, that might go a long way toward alleviating the need for practice rounds on Thursday. It could also turn into a zoo.
Save for that, I don’t think the loss of practice is worth the additional two matches per team. For many, those two matches will end up being troubleshooting matches anyway, but with greater consequence. If there’s somewhere they can go to work out bugs before competing in qualification matches, between them, or after them, I think that’d help teams to make the most of the few matches they’ll get to play.
*Originally posted by M. Krass *
If they were to make additional, non-scheduled practice fields available, that might go a long way toward alleviating the need for practice rounds on Thursday. It could also turn into a zoo.
For the past few years, at the Silicon Valley and LA regional competitions, there have been practice fields (sometimes half of a field, as at SVR this year, but at least it was something) where teams have been able to wheel their robots, and test whatever they’d like. From what I’ve seen, it’s fairly easy to keep it from turning into a “zoo.”
A couple of the forseeable problems with practice fields are that a) you can’t count on everyone using the teather when they’re practicing, and b) if the venue isn’t large enough to accomodate a practice field, you might be well out of luck.
You could very easilly trust teams to be looking out for other teams who are practicing with their radios, and have announcements concerning the need for everyone to cooperate in this matter (it’s uncommon to find a team deliberately doing something wrong, like this).
Concerning spacial issues, setting up a half of a field, or even just main field objects (the center ramp and platform from 2003, for instance, or the middle barrier / bridge from 2001) without the entirety of the field. At SVR, this year, half of the ramp was constructed against the edge of tbe bleechers, in one of the far corners of the pit area. It provided a huge amount of assistance to teams, including my own. If it hadn’t been there, we wouldn’t have been able to get our autonomous programming done, at all.
Mad props and thanks go to team 254 and NASA Ames for providing that field setup.
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Oh, I forgot to mention specifically that teams can provide these practice fields themselves, and that just because FIRST doesn’t provide it, doesn’t mean you can’t practice on it.
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Durn. This post is more about regional situations than the Championships. Oh well.
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I’d like to have 1 practice and as many qualifyings as possible - when you are at nationals, you expect teams to be at such a level so that they build their robots well enough to endure tear and wear. We made the mistake of not doing so last year and we learned form that mistake - this year we were in the pits for no more than an hour (excluding 1 day for reconstruction) each day. Plus, you are allowed to make spare parts back home if you break them during a regional.
I’d like to see more qualifying so that teams are allowed to play with more teams and thereby gain a better sense of what everyone is doing and what the competition is truly like. Plus, it’s great to go against teams you’d normally never play against/with such as on opposite coasts of the US - or other countries.
Yes I was referring to Championship. there would be plenty of room.
What is of concern is the fact that divisions of 72 teams means that without at least 8 seeding matches you cannot sort out the strong teams from the weak teams, 10 seeding matches is way better. With alliances ( if they still have them ) a team can be in the top 8 and have been carried there by great alliance partners ( that can always happen, but the more matches, the more it won’t be as much a factor.
One other possibility is more teams playing at one time. In the past several years 4 teams play at a time. What if it was say 6 teams. The through put is 50% better, which means more seeding matches. A game could be designed for 6 teams, we did it at a CDI ( Chief Delphi Invitational ) several years ago and it worked great.
hmm… for Regionals… practice is an absolute. I understand that some teams are fortunate, and can participate in multiple Regionals, however: I believe things should be left as is. From my driver days - it is greatly appreciated time, to be at the location, figure out the entire lay-out, and have the chance to gather information on your competition.
I say… as-is.
“If it isn’t broken, why fix it?”
Leave it the same, most teams need practice anyway, and if they don’t show chances are that they are making repairs or modifications to fix something. I tell you, 45 would never survive without practice matches (that gives time to work).
If FIRST knows whats best for them, leave it the same
Just to make sure that everybody is on the same page – this thread is referring to the NATIONAL event, not REGIONAL events.
If you’re at the National event, chances are your robot is working fairly decently 
and that you know what to do on the field. That said, I definately believe that a practice match is still necessary to work out any problems that might have occured during shipping or whatnot. 1-2 practice matches is a reasonable maximum. 3 is probably too many.
I agree 100% with the idea to create a partial field for practice use. Especially if autonomous mode becomes more prevalent (as I suspect it might), it will be very useful to have this area available for fine tuning. It would also be VERY nice to be able to show off your bot for judges on this practice field. Attempting to demonstrate features in the pits has never been an effective way for showcasing our weeks of hard work.
– My 2 cents.
Thurday practice is the most important if anything there should be a wenesday too
*Originally posted by Tytus Gerrish *
**Thurday practice is the most important if anything there should be a wenesday too **
I’m with Tytus on this one. Make Wednesday 3 practice, Seeding Thursday and Friday, and Finals on Saturday. Sure it would cost more for FIRST and for hotels and food but you would get more for your money. Why make a $800 per person trip half way across the country for just 6 seeding matches when you can go to a closer regional and get like 11 seeding matches?
*Originally posted by sanddrag *
**I’m with Tytus on this one. Make Wednesday 3 practice, Seeding Thursday and Friday, and Finals on Saturday. Sure it would cost more for FIRST and for hotels and food but you would get more for your money. Why make a $800 per person trip half way across the country for just 6 seeding matches when you can go to a closer regional and get like 11 seeding matches? **
More for your money? I’d be a little concerned about what you’re getting for what you pay now, never mind adding additional expenses and time away from class to the equation.
Think about it. A large team’s travel budget could be $10,000. For that, they get to watch their robot compete for approximately 12 minutes – maybe twice that if they do well during the event and are fortunate enough to play the Elimination Rounds.
I’d be hesitant to agree to another night’s stay and its associated costs, especially since, under the current conditions, it might mean that I’d get to see an extra 6 minutes of play time.
That’s about $833/minute. You’d better not blink.
Now with an atitude like that… First will never become a natonal passtime
If I understand this thread, you’re saying that competition matches at Nationals would start either…
- Friday morning (as is)
- Thursday late afternoon
- Thursday morning
The only way logistically that options 2 or 3 could work is if unpacking/inspection could take place on Wednesday.
We have been inspected at one event only to have an inspector at the second event nit-pick us to death. If we had to unpack, inspect, fix the nit-picky things (filing “sharp” edges, tie wrapping “loose” wiring, repainting our numbers, etc) before a 10:00 competition match, that would result in a very bad competition.
Despite all that, I would definitely trade practice time for competition time any day.
If each division is 72 teams, then it takes 18 matches to allow each team to play once (4 teams on the field). To get from 6 Qualifying matches to 8 qualifying matches, then 2 matches would need to be run on Thursday. 36 additional matches would need to be run per division. Using a 5 minute interval, that would mean that the additional 36 matches would take an additional 180 minutes which equals 3 hours. Even if that matches started at 5 PM, they would finish around 8 PM. I think this is reasonable.
The upside to this of course is that everyone does get 2 more qualifying matches. The downside is everyone only one practice and everyone is pulling a 12 hour day (most people that I know do anyway). I’d do almost anything to get more playing time in order to get the seeding better especially at large events.
Steve
WHAT IF WE DIDN’T DROP THE LOWEST SCORE!
One thing i think many of you are forgetting or aren’t taking into aspect is we drop our lowest score. What if the lowest score wasn’t dropped, then you would really get the full 6 matches to count, with out doing any major change. Right now yeah each team plays 6 but only the top 5 count, so this is saying really we are getting an extra practice match in our bundle of 6 comp matches. If they counted the lowest match then that will demeanor into who some of the better teams are.
Just a little of my rantings now,
~Mike