Championships - Qualification Only Event?

One of the changes in the system with FiM and MAR is that only teams that “qualify” are able to attend the district championship and and world championship.

Right now the FIRST Championship is a combination of teams that qualified by winning certain awards, winning events, winning the previous year, or are grandfathered in as Hall of Fame teams or original FIRST teams, and teams that register based on when they last attended through the open registration process.

Has anyone looked at what the number of teams are that qualify, based on just current year performance, for the last few years of the CHP?

The number would only include teams that won an event (3 or 4 per regional), won RCA, EI or RAS, or qualified out of the FiM system.

Its been looked at. Given the growth rate of regionals, within 3 or 4 years, without making CMP bigger than the ~360 teams it is now, there is going to be a point where there’s not even enough slots for qualified teams only. Every year the open registration group is getting smaller and smaller.

Expect a change to how CMP works in the next 2 years.

I believe that MAR teams only have to qualify to attend the district championships, but can still attend the world championship from the wait list. This year.

The unfortunate part of this way of organizing champs is that teams who don’t build the best of robots and don’t have a solid Chairmans base may never attend champs.

I firmly believe every student in FRC should attend The Championship Event at least once in their FIRST career. It’s something nobody would ever forget.


I am not advocating one system over the other, i just wondered if anyone had looked at the CHP data to see what numbers of teams fell into each category?

Out of 350 teams, did 200 “qualify” through the season or did 325?

Just asking if anyone had the data before I went to dig.

If memory serves correctly, a little over 100 teams were preregisted.

The number of open registration slots shrinks every year because of more and more regionals starting.

The growth rate is also non-linear.

In 2003, when I was a rookie, 1114 was one of the highest numbered teams.
In 2007, 2056 was one of the rookies
In 2011, we had 3739 as a rookie.

The rate of team growth roughly doubled from 2003-2007 to 2007-2011, and it continues to accelerate.

There are 2340 FRC teams this year. The championships would need to be 585 teams this year, and grow at the same rate as the number of teams in order for this to be possible.

There are 51 regionals, plus MSC and MARC qualifying teams to CMP this year
6 teams per regional (3 winners, RCA, RAS, and EI) x 51 = 306

MSC and MARC together qualify an additional 30 teams (18 MSC, 12 MARC)

Thats 336. Capacity at CMP is 344, 348, and 352 from 2009-2011.

In theory those numbers are correct, but in practice the number of teams that qualify is less than 336, and probably far less. There are a number of teams that qualify via more than one method (for example, we won Colorado last year and got Engineering Inspiration at the same event) which would obviously reduce the numbers.

I guess that each time that happens someone else from the wait list gets to go; is that correct?

That’s correct. Multiple qualifiers open up spots for open reg.

But at the rate we’re adding regionals, there’s just too many teams qualifying to continue without doing something. I think they should simply double capacity at CMP, by making it an 8 division event, and running a full elimination bracket on Einstein.

I did the math last year, there was enough room on the floor of the EJD to fit 10 FRC fields (8 divisional fields, plus Einstein/FLL and FTC.)

If I remember correctly, there is a waiting list you can get on and you’ll have your “time” to attend Champs.

I believe that once all of FIRST has been set to regions and there are 8-12 of those “Region” championships, that the World Championship will be made Qualification only, which while unfair to those teams that aren’t able to gain the luck necessary to qualify, those Region championships will end up gaining a lot more attention because of their ability to hand out tickets to Champs for more than just the usual ones now. For instance, the original top 8 seeds of each Regional Championship could get bids into the World Champs.

I had a huge re-imagining of the Champs qualifying, but haven’t found the right day to post in on CD yet.

But wait…there wasn’t enough room last year for more than two. :eek:

Seriously, though – how much space would there be between each field? Did you calculate for aisle space, queuing, etc? How about spectators; would every field have a reasonable amount of seating?

I really like having all of the fields in the dome. If we can get better seating for the pit fields they’d be OK, but there’s still something about being in the dome.

Three. Plus FTC (another FRC field, in effect, but can be spread around).

The stage just hid most of the arena. There has been no indicator of it returning this year to date. This means that half the arena, enough space for 2-3 fields, is now available for use by said fields.

Personally, I see something like this: All of FRC goes to districts, with non-US teams declaring their home area. Half the districts feed one mega-championship, and the other half feed another. The top X in points from each mega-championship go to the Big Show. Say 150 from each. This leaves 40 “at-large” bids, which can be awarded to teams that have never been to the Championship, or to teams that have not otherwise qualified but have something unique that deserves recognition, or something like that. (Or you have 4 mega-championships that each get fed from the regions, each supplying one 50-80 team field, but the teams get spread out at the Big Show.)

Apparently I should have put my implied sarcasm tag in bold or a larger font. :slight_smile:

Last year Bill kept saying that the concert wasn’t the reason for the pit fields, and to expect them to continue. Anyone heard anything different?

I hope they changed it, it was very loud in the pits for teams right next to the arenas. It was not fair for those teams.

In regards to qualifying for championships, I am all for it to be merit based. My old team 766 would only go if we won a regional. I really think its more important to have a championship that actualy feels like that it is made up of the best robots of the country.

I would go as far as suggesting that the EI award and rookie all-star to not be guaranteed admissions to championships. I rather open the spots for two “wild card” candidates. Perhaps the EI, rookie all-star and all teams that reach the semifinals are in the running for the wild card spots. I am not sure the selection method. I suppose it could be either by judges or a scoring system similar to the district model.

Here is a look at 2011. Does Michigan qualify anybody other than its 3-4 winners / 3x CA / EI / RAS from MSC? By this count I have 95 out of 352 teams attending the 2011 Championship via pre-registration or waitlist.

2011 Qualifiers.xlsx (446 KB)

2011 Qualifiers.xlsx (446 KB)

2011 Qualifiers.xlsx (446 KB)

With districts, district championship, this mega-championship you describe, and the “Big Show”, the amount of money that teams are going to have to spend on travel will go way up. Specifically, a large number of teams will probably have to fly to two events instead of just one, which is an ever more expensive form of travel. I really can’t imagine FIRST would do this anytime soon.

I hope they changed it, it was very loud in the pits for teams right next to the arenas. It was not fair for those teams.

In regards to qualifying for championships, I am all for it to be merit based. My old team 766 would only go if we won a regional. I really think its more important to have a championship that actualy feels like that it is made up of the best robots of the country.

I feel that is somewhat antithetical to FIRST’s intent. Part of the point of the Rookie All-star and Engineering Inspiration awards is to send as many people to championships for what they do off the field as are sent for what they do on the field. Eliminating the qualifying nature of these awards would shift FIRST’s focus more towards the competition and the robots, which is something FIRST does not seem to want to do.

What about using a points system similar to MAR (not sure if FiM is the same?)? You get points for certain things (how you do in eliminations, seeding in the top 8, where you get picked, winning/tying matches, awards, etc.) and the x number of teams with the highest points as well as the RCA from each event goes to championships?

It’s called the championships. That means that is where the champions compete. I think that you should only go to the championships if you earn the right to go. No offense to teams who buy their way into the championships. I know it’s a fun place to be, and the experience of a lifetime, but I think that in order to get that experience, you have to earn it.

Just my opinion.