Cheaters in the bunch

So it is rumered that the Chiefs and Bees took advantage of another teams mishape and used it to cheat because they could not win the matches fairly. I thought FIRST was for fun and not full of bad spirit as i saw at the Western Michigan Regional. I did want to see the Chiefs bring the gold home but not the way they did it. Hope you guys enjoyed the win and feel SO good for how you got it. laterz.

I sure hope this is in the rumor mill for a reason…

We have been alliance partners with both Chief Delphi and the Killer Bees and I know they would never do what you claim they did.

This sounds rather unbelievable. Please elaborate, because I think I speak for a good majority of the people out there when I say that I have no idea what your talking about (and I was at WMR). Also if you have nothing to back these claims please don’t go on making these posts bashing other teams.

This is the second time today I’ve seen someone post annomously (I’m assuming the poster created an account just to post this) about cheating/bad actions/etc. If you don’t have any evidence, I really don’t want to hear it. Oh, and you say
"I thought FIRST was for fun and not full of bad spirit "
and yet you seem to be full of bad spirit about this event. I would like to believe that no FIRST team would cheat, so I suggest you have fun, and worry about your robot, not others.


Usually Andy Baker jumps in about now and reminds everyone of being careful what they post - sort of like what Woody says about behaving so your Grandmother would be proud of you. Please do not embarrass yourself or worse yet your team by making erroneous accusations. No one cheated on the alliance pairing that you spoke of and this isn’t the right venue to start a mudslinging contest.
Tracing posters down isn’t that hard anymore- we don’t want to embarass anyone by having to tell everyone what team you are from - so like my Grandma always said "if you don’t have anything nice to say about someone - then don’t say anything at all!

Wow cmon people.
Is this jealousy or what? Today I’ve seen 2 posts with direct attacks against CD. I’m not sure, but I don’t think it goes along with Gracious Proffesionalism to do so. IF you have evidence, and aren’t afraid to hide behind anonymity then I think the entire FIRST community would be anxious to hear about cheating, and find a fair way to remedy the situation. However, this is just slander, and I think it is uncalled for. Not everyone has to like 47, (I must admit, sometimes I get a little jealous) but even if you don’t, don’t just create stories for the sole purpose of making them look bad.

I had the pleasure of working with CD in Cleveland, and can testify (as can many others) as to their proffesional conduct, and gracious demeanor.

Rock On Chief Delphi! Congrats for WMR!

John Vielkind-Neun
Strategy Head
Team 229 - Clarkson University

I have known the Chief Delphi team for the last seven years and there has been no other team who has done more for FIRST in promoting and expanding the competition. If there were two dozen teams like Chief Delphi, FIRST would be a household name.
All their people are top shelf, and would NEVER intentionally break a rule for advantage. However, if they inadvertently did something “wrong”, they would be the first people who would want to know so they could change whatever it is to be in compliance.

As for the anonymous accusation of cheating, I hope the individual who posted this is identified and removed from the FIRST program. Unsubstantiated slander is not what this program is about and people who propogate it are detrimental to the efforts of many outstanding people.


Brian Beatty

What evidence do you have? We are normally next to CD, and they have never done anything to hurt, or even not-help anyone. They are always helping out one person or a nother. Unless you have some concrete evidence, i will still believe that CD is one of the best-helper-teams around!

I have known the Chief and Bees to be nothing but helpful, friendly, and gracious. They are also tough competitors. Please don’t confuse good, solid, aggressive competitiors with cheaters.

Despite his being quite busy, Jim Zontag spent time explaining the powertrain and position control scheme on their machine. Both teams are great competitors who are more than willing to help other teams get better too.

Please don’t bash another team for cheating unless you have solid evidence, and the alleged cheating is detrimental to the program. I’m sure that Jim and Joe noticed the illegal van door motors and extra drill transmissions on some machines, but neither made an issue of it.

Both teams have class. Please recognize that, and find something positive to say. You don’t need to look very hard.

The alliance that my team was in at West Mich got beat fair and square by the 47+33+888 alliance. Sure, everyone has strengths and weaknesses that other teams may know about. Taking advantage of those weaknesses - which they did to us! - is totally legit. I give those guys credit for figuring out how to beat us fair and square.

Its not enough to hold the goal in the right zone (which we did). We were supposed to do it without shredding carpet (Which we didn’t).


Chief Delphi has been nearby our pits for years at the GLR and they have been nothing but helpful, cheery, and getting everyone into the FIRST spirit. The Killer Bees are also a well known team that works hard and that I’ve come into contact with many times. For people to spread mean nasty rumors is wrong. Maybe they’re just jealous because their robot stinks. I say lets give CD and the Bees a break. Stop hating on them that’s not apart of the FIRST spirit

From what I have seen at GLR and WMR either 47 or 33 could win most matches without an aliance parter their robots are that good. I wish whoever it is that started this match would have clarified at least what they were talking about?

*Originally posted by Matt Reiland *
**I wish whoever it is that started this match would have clarified at least what they were talking about? **

I also didn’t understand WHAT “hey” is complaining about.

Maybe someone is having fun watching us explain that Chiefs and Bees are fair.

Anyway, there is a nice way to see this thread and it’s replies: everyone came to help those that were pointed as cheaters, saying they’re are definatly fair and Gracious Professionalism “users”.

I’m proud of being a FIRST team member like all you guys. You guys are great.

Rodrigo Ribeiro

I just want to say that my team was proud to have lost to such great teams and were happy that we got so far. I can personally tell you that our team was in no mishape as you claimed and neither were our allies. They beat us fairly and Team 68 congratulates them. 33, 47, and 888 worked very hard to get the robots they have and deserved to do well. The accusations that this person made are unfounded and don’t just make himself look bad, but they make his team look bad too. I hope someone on his/her team recognizes who they are and deals with them accordingly.

Congratulations to the Killer Bees, Chief Delphi and to team 888 on their first place victory.


Bryan Duggan

I for one never believed the accusation for a second. As a main scout for four years, everything I’ve seen from Chief Delphi screams excellence, including their play tactics. I’ve never seen them maliciously attack a robot, break a rule, or even get a warning from a referree. Their website (staffed by team members) is a tremendous service to everyone, and everyone I’ve spoken to on the team is gracious and professional (in addition to Graciously Professional, heh.)
Most of the same (sans the website parts) go for the Bees.

What I would like to know, though, is what exactly “Hey” is talking about. Details, man! You can’t just go to trial and say “It’s rumored that this guy, you know, uhh, killed this other guy. He should feel bad!” and expect to get a conviction. We need specifics.

Otherwise, you just come off as a sore loser.

(I <3 CD and Bees)

*Originally posted by Hey *
**So it is rumered that the Chiefs and Bees took advantage of another teams mishape and used it to cheat because they could not win the matches fairly. **

As an adult member of Team 27 I am offended that some punk thinks we lost unfairly! We fought hard with the Chief, the Bees and Team 888(sorry i didn’t get your team name.) They played hard and so did we! It was one of the most exciting final matches I have watched this year. The 47/33/888 alliance won fair and square and am honored that we played them for the gold! We did not feel like they stole the gold from us, rather we cheered for them and congratulated them on a hard fought and honorable win!!
I watched in the round before ours in horror as 888’s go home device was outside the playing field. I was screaming at them to move their machine out onto the field to pull it out of the disqual zone! I did not want to see such an awsome alliance lose in such a cheesy way! I have made friends on both the Bees and ChiefDelphi and have not found any basis for your accusations! You should stay anonamyous, at least this way we think someone out here in cyberspace is stupid, giving us your identity will give us a target to remove all doubt!!

While it is almost not even worth setting the record straight, as this accusation was made anonymously with no details whatsoever, not to mention not even knowing what match/series he/she is speaking of, for the benefit of those not there to witness the matches, I can say from watching them personally that the charges made are totally unfounded if they are directed at Quarterfinal 2.
There were certainly “mishaps” in both match 1 and 3 of this particular quarterfinal, and ChiefDelphi and the Killer Bees certainly took advantage of them, but they in no way cheated or did so in a manner anyway unbecoming to gracious professionalism. In match 1, the 857/65/503 alliance was disqualified was damaging the playing field. Impossible to blame 47/33 for that. In match 3, one of our alliance robots tripped the 60 amp breaker a few seconds into the match. Again, impossible for them to “cheat.”
I hope this provides more proof beyond simple reputation that there was no wrong doing on the part of 47/33. It is a shame that all too often a good reputation can be tarnished unjustly by unsubstantiated rumors.


Chief delphi advanced in the elimination rounds partly based ont he fact that there was a dissqualification of an opponent alliance member on some rule by the officials, as all rules are final they were out of the match and out of their luck. if this is their way of venting their anger at a mishap, then i feel it is a post of serious immaturity and lack of respect for FIRST. Things can go wrong at a competition, but whoever posted this message should be reminded that a team such as 47 and 33 have contributed much to the exspansion of firsts influence and that first is about learning engineering and science. winning is only an added bonus. winning isnt what first is all about. maybe they shoudl ponder why in the awards listing, the chairmans award is always first, and the champions of the competition are underneath.


Wow. I for one, being the chassis driver on Chief Delphi, would like to know what this is all about. We never had any intention of cheating. If in some way we did, I’d like to know how, so that it can be prevented in the future. If the person who started this thread would like to remain anonymous, feel free to private message me, or e-mail me at Thank-you to all of those who came to our defense on this subject.

Well, I watched 47 get slammed once and said nothing about it because the unfounded rambling seemed pointless to dignify with a response. Now that my friends on both the Bees and Chief Delphi are being dragged through the mud, here’s my two cents. Whoever is claiming that these teams cheated should head back to their optomitrist because their vision is clearly even worse than mine. I was up watching from the crowds in the first round, and down on the sidelines for all of the rest of the matches cheering teams on. There was no signs of cheating from anyone, just a really exciting, edge-of-your seat competion. It was one of the best that I have seen yet, well played by all of the teams. Even if I didn’t know about the charachter of these teams, I would have no doubt in my mind that this competition was played cleanly and fairly.

Here’s the kicker. I do know these teams. Over the past 3 years I have worked closely with these teams, students, teachers and engineers. They are my friends, they are my extended family. It’s hard to sit idly by and watch jealous little people, too cowardly to openly address everyone about teams and people that I care a lot about. It’s also not just that they are close to me. These people are all class acts, the kind of teams that Dean and Woody would want to use as the “how to make a team” guides if they were to do such a thing. They work hard, love the game, and help others whenever possible. I have learned a world’s worth of knowledge from people like this.

So to make a short story long, if you have nothing nice (or at least remotely true) to say, then sit down, be quiet, and think about why you are so mad and angered towards golden teams like this.

I’m hoping that posts like this in defense of top-class teams like this will not be needed in the future, for mud-slingling like this should stay out of honorable programs like FIRST.

Congrats to everyone on making this a great season, and best of luck with all future endeavors…robotics and beyond.

Rob Jenkins
Team #201 The FEDS