Choosing Drivers

FIRST General Forum
1

How do your teams choose who is going to be a driver?

My team thought of a “video game tournament” would be the best way of doing this. We are playing driving games like MarioKart, and Need for Speed. Apparently who ever is the best at playing video games will be the best at driving the robot, at least that is the theory.

I was wondering what you think of this idea, and if it will produce accurate results. I think there are many many many more factors involved. For instance I want the participants to all stand up, wear scratched up saftey glasses and listen to extremely loud music while playing.

So, what do you think? Will the best video gamer be the best driver?

2

I doubt it. It’s possible, yes, but there are a number of other factors.

In the racing games, can you race with a trailer? No? Well, then, that’s a factor you have to take into account.

Your suggestion is pretty good. They should also play standing up with someone behind them telling them what to do. And if possible, leave the controller alone during the countdown to the start.

Or, better yet–as soon as you get a running robot that can tow a trailer, wear down its batteries as fast as you can by having the drivers train on it. That’s the main thing here–the racing games are all on asphalt/concrete, and we’re driving on a much slicker surface.

Also, if you have anyone who races R/C cars, they’ll probably make a pretty good driver.

3

…especially if you give them an RC car controller (with the radio removed, and the control potentiometers connected to the DS)

4

I think video games can help, but doesn’t do FIRST robotics driving justice for choosing a driver. The best robot drivers make the best robot drivers, some just may happen to have great racing game skills.

As far as when I am picking a driver for my team the first thing that I look at is the persons sports background. From what I have found drivers with a background in sports turn out to be better drivers because they understand the meaning of pressure situations. Also as far as communication aspects between myself and my drivers they don’t forget about the fact that they are playing a timed game and don’t attempt to question decisions that are made during the game.

There are many things you can look at for the driver but the most important thing is getting someone to practice. The driver is the most important position on the team, you could have the best robot out on the field but it is useless if you don’t have a good driver. My advice is who ever has interest right now give them a robot to drive, set up some cones in an open space and get use to the controls of the robot.

1114 has posted a great list of requirements for a driver on their website. 612 uses something a little bit similar but I agree with many things that they go through when they pick their drivers, so far it has seemed to work.

5

First thing we do is give them a written test to make sure they thoroughly understand the rules.Then we do the driving skill test to see how they handle the robot and finally we do an interview with the coaches and leadership team to see if they have the aptitude to properly represent our team on the field of play because we want someone who conducts themselves with integrity as well as having driving talent.

1 Like
6

we just, whoever wants to do it raises their hands, and we drive around the old robots to see who would be driver,co-driver,and human player

7

Here’s an old thread about choosing drivers, with some valid information and discussion: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66161

Here is the first post in that thread I wrote explaining what our team takes into consideration for driver selection. (When I saw this thread, I remembered writing a long list about driver selection, so I knew there had to be an old thread floating around somewhere.) Good luck!

8

Last year we waited until our chasis was done and then we took it into the school library, because it was the largest carpet we could find, and set up some tape lines. Whoever performed the best would be the driver. Our mentor would tell us what directions to go and would time laps, and just like Koko Ed said we were to read the game rules and took a written test before.

9

Choosing a Driver isn’t as easy as most think. First we find who is interested and then see how many of those interested are dedicated members. From there we test skill, game knowledge, and also we see how much experience they have.

One of the biggest things to remember is that Driving is not entirely about skill. It’s about teamwork, so you may find a kid who’s a complete ringer behind the sticks but if he can’t work with his co-driver, HP and Coach then why have him on the field. Also it’s good to look into who would be the best Drive Team rather than who will be the best Driver, Operator and HP.

Also, your Driver/Drive Team is who people see on the field. They’re attitudes and actions tend to represent the whole team in a lot of cases. So if they walk out to the field with a bad attitude looking as if they just woke up that may not make your team look well or another team may remember that during alliance selections.

10

862 drivers are selected by a 5 mentor panel who looks at several criteria, the first of which is a written test on the game rules & strategy. Next is a practical driving test (if the robot is done in time), we also look at meeting attendance, behavior at meetings, and interactions with the other potential drivers. We also select an alternate set of drivers just in case.

Copies of several years worth of Driver & Human Player written tests can be found in our Document Repository

11

Being good at video games is a great skill to have if you’re interested in being a driver in FRC, but I don’t think it could test enough factors to be the best way to choose your driver(s). Driving tests with old robots or with at least the base of your new bot could show your skill, but you should also use a rule test to see how much they know about the game. Hard work/Determination, GP, and skill are probably the three factors our team looks at the most when picking a driver. If you have two drivers, then imo the most important skill is how much chemistry the drivers have, because when you have two skilled drivers you can’t unlock their maximum potential until they work together like clockwork.

12

To choose drivers we start with a written test. Then, as the robot starts to be finished (at least the base with drivetrain) and when you can attach bumpers and the goal to it (don’t want someone to break it before comp) you have a test. It’s a pressure situation because they know it’s their chance to be driver, and you have a group of people watch them (mentors who choose the driver, not other students). You then have one mentor stand near them and tell them what to do before the start, and see if they can do it.

i.e. in 2007 we had a field set up, the robot together, but the manipulator wasn’t quite working. they put ringers on the floor, had us drive next to them, say pick them up (as if we had a manipulator and a person to say it to), then the mentor would judge if they were close enough to pick it up or not. If not then say you didn’t get it and have them reallign. Then have them drive to the rack as if they scored, and try to end up on a ramp at the end of the time (we had about 1 minute I think, and they said when 20 seconds was left). Things to keep in mind while people do this is see their technique, how well they accomplish things, and also the way the pick what to do (backing up when it’s faster instead of turning around, if they make a mistake fixing it instead of saying that wasn’t good, was it?, etc.)

13

If you’re going to include video games, have the WHOLE team play a variety of games- racing, shooting, preferably something with co op play. Don’t look at the scores or individual performance, look at the individuals. Somebody might be really good at a particular game, but the one that stays cool and can come back after a big hit is who you want controlling the field. The rules can be learned, but the attitude has to come over a long time.

14

This is one of the more rather important factors when deciding who team drivers are going to be. I’m entering my forth year as the Devil Duckies Head Driver and the most important factor in deciding who will be on the stage is their dedication. The students who are willing to stay late nights building, talking and making key decisions about not only the design of the robot, but the rest of the team are those who should be considered “worthy” to represent the team.

Video games don’t matter, if anything that’s one of the most shallow ways of picking a driver, no offense to those who consider that method:D . Finding a student who is loyal to the team, a great leader, motovating, intelligent, fun and has almsot no life or job:yikes: is what you should be looking for. The fact that they may be pretty good at staring at a tv screen should be a bonus. It’s also almost a given that the student who spends the most time with the robot and helps design, build, and modify the darn thing is going to be the driver(they also need to dig the crazy hair:D ).

My info may be biased on account of myself being on a small team where a core group of students shares most of the responsibility, but oh well:) . For the most part, the drivers, as well as the other leaders on the team, usually pick students and take them “under their wing” so that when they graduate, there’s another to take on the responsibilities.

15

i believe that in many instances the people who are extremely into video games do general make good drivers because it gives them experience; yet don’t count out those less into them because you might miss a very good driver if you do.

Because of this I think in this question the real question should be what makes a good driver; not just who makes a good driver. Some of these things would be things such as reflexes, the ability to make a quick but accurate judgment, skill at the controls, the ability to work with others, and ability to plan ahead would be just a few among the many qualities that would make up good drivers. The list can truly go on and on. As for methods to prepare them for competition, there are plenty to chose from.

One of the easiest methods to train them is obviously to either use your robot or use a robot from another year equipped with the new wheels and actually use it to train your drivers to how the conditions will be. even if the two robots are not exactly alike they can still give the drivers a general idea of what they are facing.

As for using video games to train the drivers is a good way; however the way you train them with the games can vary. With people not that experienced in video games it may be a good idea to go all the way though the games simply so they can get good at using controllers and really get used to them.

However for people who have allot of practice with video games, simply going all the way through them in the normal way will be no where near as effective given the fact that they all ready probably have years of experience with them so a few weeks playing them will not do much to help them. With those people you need to fine tune their skills.

one of my favorite ways to train them is to do stuff such as having the drivers in a different room then the game, then playing the game through until you reach an extremely difficult situation. then you can pause the game, power off the tv, and then bring the driver into the room. You give them the controller and unpause the game at the same time as you turn on the tv. That way the driver has no idea what they are about to encounter and will force them to work on their reflexes and quick thinking to safely get out of the spot. For added difficulty you can switch the games on them.

That is only one method to train them however if you get creative you can come up with other ways to train their skills.

Also remember the fact you get 2 drivers in the game. That is also going to determine training methods because one driver you are going to want to train more heavily in driving skills while the other one you will probably want to train more heavily on judgement and shooting skills so they can accurately score on the opponents.

Also because of this fact the drivers also need to be able to work together effectively and be able to know what the other will most likely do in the competition. Its no good having a great shooter if your driver makes sudden changes and the shooter cant anticipate it.

Also the major thing you have to prepare the drivers for is the rules so make sure they understand them before you let them drive. penaltys can make a major difference in a close match so it is no good if you lose a match simply because you get a penalty.

16

Picking a drive team is a major discussion that all of our mentors are involved in. To determine this we

  • Give a written/verbal test to see who understands the rules (used to be written but last few years more of a verbal test)

*Let each student drive the robot around and simulate actions they would have to do on the field

But, Most importantly we look at who has been an active team member. Being on the drive team is an honor. I mean you are representing our TEAM. Our drive team at regionals will definitely be made of 4 students that have been leaders during crunch time and understand the robot’s capabilities (because they fully understand the robot((because they were the ones that made it))).

I honestly I have never seen a person that is just naturally gifted at driving a robot. The students that are the best are students that were the most dependable during the build season.

Besides there are always invitationals later where the others can drive.

17

Our team really has no specific way of choosing. We normally just have the secondary driver (controller of the arm, etc.) from the previous year graduate up to the main driving position. This will usually happen their senior year. I, myself have been a driver for the team (both secondary and the main driver). I started out by controlling the shooting and ball pick-up in 2006. I then became the main driver in 2007 (my senior year). Usually to even start out driving, our drivers have some experience, whether it be with RC vehicles or video games. I play a lot of racing video games and do a lot of RC racing, etc.

18

You make a good point, but must also consider that those who don’t know exacly how things work will not hold back in rough situatiosn. I’m not saying it’s good to not know the robot, but make sure those who do know everything about it don’t hold back in situations where they may hurt the robot a little to win a match because they were afraid of damaging it too much. Make sure they play every match to it’s fullest. (I’m not saying carelessness, but driving to it’s full extent when necessary).

Some of the best drivers I have seen were on the animation team and knew less technical facts about the robot than those on mechanical or electrical. Everyone on the team, though, should know about your robot.

19

We look at commitment during the build process and to the team in general. Not just the number of hours that one’s put in but how much of that time was actually spent working on the robot or for the team and not just messing around. Then we have everyone on the team take a written test (used to be the “driver’s test” but now is for all leadership positions on the team during competition). The scores on this test don’t say whether or not you’d be a good driver, but what it shows is that you are dedicated to read the game manual and understand the rules to the nth degree.

Then finally we look at driver skill. However just being good at driving doesn’t mean that you’ll get the job. Communication is paramount. If you can’t communicate with your co-driver and coach then you have no business behind the controls. One big aspect is, can they stay cool under pressure. It’s easy to drive at your shop where it’s nice and quiet and no opposing robots to compete against, but can you do the same things with the same poise during the real thing.

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Those of us developing the FRC simulation that will be distributed soon hope that it is a useful part of driver training this season; and that as its fidelity increases in future seasons, it becomes a valuable tool in teams’ bags-o-tricks for driver training and other build season activities.

Take a look here: Link to recent 5th Gear discussion
and here: 5th Gear discussion with links to other FRC simulation threads

We look forward to your feedback.

Blake