College FRC Mentor Training at UNLV

FIRST General Forum
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A student in the F23 class responded to this with…

This post is especially helpful to me because as nice as the leadership points people have been making are as someone who doesn’t have prior experience with robotics, as I’m learning it’s extremely helpful to know what technical issues teams run into that I can be reading to help with outside of the basics. Although we are building robots which means we could probably have similar issues I just like that now I can be more aware that dealing with those issues is something I should be ready to help with. I also do appreciate your points to leadership on this because some of my best teachers knew how to teach us enough so that we could figure out the next thing on our own and that’s how I’ve learned the best, it’s just a great way to learn because it allows you to fully understand the concepts we are approaching. By explaining the foundations of concepts and giving examples(when applicable) and letting students use those concepts on projects on their own, but also being available to help, is probably one of the best ways to teach and I plan on implementing that when I am one of the mentors.

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As an incoming college mentor with no prior knowledge and experience in robotics, I must admit that I am somewhat nervous with the idea that I would be on of the people to try and provide additional support and expertise to a high school robotics team that, more than likely, has way more experience with how it all works. I think the biggest expectation for me of my mentors is to know that in the end, I will have that support for situations that I’m not 100% confident in. Communication within the team is super important, however, as a new incoming college mentor, I would feel more comfortable knowing that I can easily turn to my mentors when I have questions or need help. I understand that I will have to put forth extra effort in terms of additional research, which I’m more than willing to do. So far, even with the smallest amount of collaboration that we’ve already done, I am already getting more familiar with the equipment being used as well as collaborating ideas and work load with a group. I feel like we’ve already gotten comfortable to a sense of knowing when to step up in certain situations in order to keep the work flow cohesive. I’m very excited for this opportunity and to be able to contribute what I’ve been learning in university to help and inspire these students, and hopefully, win! I’m looking forward to meeting with the team and mentors!

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Responding to Katie_UPS’s perspective, I witnessed various cases of the teacher being very knowledgeable in their field, but not knowing how to convey their knowledge easily to others. I believe being an effective communicator grounds the support of the team in this instance. Other notable skills mentioned such as relationship building and student support are essential, not only in the beginning, but throughout the challenges faced in the competition. I believe it would be a great idea to receive some crash courses on team-building and relationship skills, as having a team to truly connect with would seem like a make-or-break.

As for the technical knowledge perspective, my class and I, hope we are prepared to face these technical issues through the troubleshooting and researching faced right now (development stages). I agree giving a kit-like solution is great for teams, as it allows both the mentor and mentee to team together to step-by-step solutions. Custom solutions can become an option later down the road when we have enough resources to experiment.

Real-time communication such as Discord is a heavy agreement on my part because I see this case being used for everyday courses I take (as an average college student). There will be the case of someone working up late designing and reaching out to others for a concurrence.

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For what it’s worth, I have the same talk with my graduating students every year.

In that talk, the advice is always take time away. Focus on school. If you have an itch that can only be scracthed by FRC, volunteer at an event or two. Avoid mentoring.

Looking at the idea behind that, I’d push even harder to give that advice in connection with a class like this without a LOT of understanding of how it’ll be structured. With the stress of college in addidtion to how time consuming the FRC season can be, I’ve found very few students that can juggle this well and not harm their own mental health during that period. With a class, now their grades will be depending upon how well their pairing goes (it’d seem).

It’s a lot to put on a young person’s shoulders and they’re more likely to over-extend themselves than set reasonable boundaries.

All that said, how do you plan to help ensure these students are empowered to set and enforce reasonable boundaries so we’re not causing them harm to lift their mentees?

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Hi, Chun Che Lo. My name is Preston. I found your post to be very insightful. As I begin my mentorship I plan to implement some of the strategies to my approach towards teaching. I liked your emphasis on finding a balance between guiding the students and having them figure things out for themselves.
Firstly, the idea of setting a boundary on the problem solving process. I like the idea of setting them up for success by showing them the initial steps of the problem solving process so that they can fully understand the problem and help them go about solving it in an efficient manner. I think this will save them from a lot of the initial frustration and build some confidence. As time goes on I plan to challenge them a bit more.
Troubleshooting is something I took away from this post as encouraging students to identify problems and propose solutions themselves will encourage more critical thinking in my opinion. It was also pointed out that you can plan ahead of time for electrical and mechanical issues because they are almost guaranteed to come. Being well prepared is important as students are in a time crunch so I think this is a great idea

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One student replied…

In response to @gerthworm, One major focus is how to take plans to progress through a complete project in a timely manner and address problems with appropriate solutions. Demonstrating how to learn despite issues is always hard since it’s in situation that makes it a challenge to want to learn while being uncomfortable.

Learning research skills that properly coordinate is a big input for these project, especially for the teams that do not have a history with these events. Knowing how to get specific stats and understand the abilities of other teams to use for current robot, could exponentially expedite the process of the design stages. It can also be helpful to see how teams used arrangements to better certain aspects of the games and can mimic them for a similar style build.

To add, I think learning proper documentation skills can help the team grow even after the mentor has left to leave a footprint for future competitions. When it comes to actually creating parts or code, I believe I will be great assistance for since I have prior experience in through multiple projects, However when it comes to certain aspects of proper ways to ensure less issues for changes could be worked on and improved before mentoring a team.

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One student responded…

Becoming a mentor for a high school robotic team with no prior experience in robotics seems
nerve-racking. Since most high school robotic teams are most likely more experienced, a fundamental understanding of the technical aspect would go a long in assisting the team. Dedication to learning more about the robotic field outside class is necessary to make up for the
difference in experience.

Communication is one of my weaknesses; the current group project would serve as a good exercise for improvement. It will definitely take time to adjust to the team dynamic and get to know each team member before being able to communicate effectively and keep the workflow going.

Having a mentor at the university serves as an assurance when facing a problem that is hard to solve. While asking the mentor for help is fitting in some cases, trying to solve the problem yourself can provide an invaluable experience for the future. In conclusion, the university provides many resources and assistance to prepare us for the mentorship next semester. Observing the current mentor at university is most likely the best course of action since the current mentor provides a good example of how to conduct yourself and help out while remaining in the background.

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A student from F23 replied…

As a past scout counselor and current math instructor, I feel I have a lot of practice teaching students of all ages, but taking a crash course before the start of build season is sure to improve my pedagogy. I love helping and teaching others who are curious to learn, but the only way to improve that for the season is practicing or learning from the College of Education. About building relationships, bias training and supporting students, I 100% agree. I find that the students I tutor are more responsive if we have some relationship prior to starting a lesson, even if its just a quick “how’s your day” conversation.

I was aware that FRC had limelight and a kit of parts, but knowing that they have a lot more standard solutions makes me want to research and learn about them. That way I know what tools we have at our disposal and what solutions we can come up with.

Luckily for me, I already started socializing with other mentors in my class and I have various methods of communicating with Mr. J. Lazatin. During the build season I will definitely reach out to other mentors to aid in collaboration and problem solving when the need arises.

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Another student responded…

For leadership skills, the first thing I would do is to find out what the team knows and what they don’t know. Then I would delegate based on their knowledge to work in different aspects of the team. I’ll give them a certain date and if they still have problems by then, I’ll follow up to troubleshoot and repeat the process again.

Search skills are more straightforward. I can act as an extra brain to help the team on researching a topic while providing some of my own expertise. I’ll do it in a way that maximize thinking by the team instead of giving a solution right away

For specific technical skill, I’ll need to get familiar with the tools that the team uses for their robot but it’s unlikely that’ll bring new knowledge to the table as the team has been using them longer than me. However, I’ll do my best for any new members of the team to catch up their knowledge.

With general design skills, I had designed a robot before so I can help steer the new people on the team to the right direction, I can reinforce the knowledge from the experienced members to the newer ones.

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I definitely agree that mentoring can be a overwhelming especially in the context of also being a college student as well. I can shed some light into the class structure, but would definitely appreciate further conversation on how to make this a sustainable practice.

For context on the Las Vegas robotics scene in general. Virtually all the teams are run by teachers at the school sites at which the teams operate. Almost none of the teachers had done FRC themselves. As teams were formed, especially after like 2017 when some funding came through and incentivized a lot of schools to start teams, teachers were pretty much selected to run teams and in almost all cases, teachers didn’t have any FRC background at all (plus along with this, many schools operate vex program as well in which the vex mentors are also the FRC mentors so they split the year doing vex in the fall and FRC in the spring). The class was actually started because teams were struggling due to lack of experienced mentorship in the area and were asking the local FIRST organizers for some sort of support.

In terms of class structure, it’s an elective students take in the fall to learn all the technologies and skills to design, build, and operate FRC robots, so it’s built in as part of the college coursework, not in addition to it, and fills as a technical elective. When students are paired with schools, we also require them to fill out a mentor agreement between the school site mentor and UNLV mentor to agree on meetings times, generally capping mentor hours to 10 hours a week max. This agreement also specifies that the UNLV mentor is there to act as a supporting technical mentor and will not be given any responsibility in terms of operations and logistics of the team.

During build and competition season, UNLV mentors also meet weekly, usually virtually, to discuss challenges and how their teams are doing to provide additional support to ensure that season is going smoothly for them.

2 Likes
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Hi Jonathan, this is Cade

  1. I believe the best thing to tell them is that it is alright to be upset about the task not working out, and then ask them if they learned anything about it not working and see if they would improve on what they did originally. Letting them know that they can learn from their mistakes makes them a valuable team member and they can contribute by letting other team members know what does and doesnt work with their task. It would be important to see that they can build off their mistakes and not be let down by the first time something works, and that robotics has been and will be a process of failing until you finally get something working.

  2. I would let the team know what works with their list and be positive about them coming up with it on their own. I would give my insight on what tasks or designs should be done before getting onto other tasks that they might have mixed up in their list and let them know on the importance on time it may save and improvements it may bring on their list and design. Since it is still a brainstorm, there are many improvements that could be made, and they could also agree or disagree to the suggestions the mentors give, but overall it is their robot in the end to decide what does and doesnt want to be done.

  3. Depending on how often the students have done and completed the same task in the build season, I might take up the task myself and do it. I would of course let them know that I would want to do it with the time they have and let them know it is something they have done many times before and it would help the robot succeed in the match. They could disagree and really want to do it themselves, so in that case I would let them do it, but let them know of the consequences. If it is a task that they have not done many times and I think it could benefit them in later matches and building, I will take the time to let them do it, but let them know the robot will not perform as well in the next match only.

  4. The first thing I would do is to go up to the students who are not contributing as much and see if there is any reason they are holding back and see if they want to work on a part of the robot. I would like to see what they want to do in the design process and help cater their skills and interests to show them how they can help. I would let both groups know that everyone is there to build a robot and see it succeed, so everyone should want to do something to see their team succeed and be proud of what they accomplish, and that everyone is there for one goal. If it is the case that the students who are actively participating are doing too much and makes it feel like the other group cant do much, they should delegate tasks so everyone feels like they are equally contributing.

  5. I would let the student who wants to own many parts that overall, this is a team project and I would not want them to get burnt out by doing too much or build resentment towards others who arent doing much because of them working on everything. I would try to have the students talk amongst themselves to delegate tasks and have them work on tasks equally. I would let the one student know that even though they arent working on much of the robot, they can put their heart into making the task they do work on really well.

  6. I would suggest that while it is great to want to do a robot that does everything, they should work on some aspects of the game that can be done really well. They should really focus on the subsystems they have going and try to improve on those prototypes to work better than the robot they saw online. I would want them to come up with their own ideas on how they can improve on the design rather than copying everything that looks like it works, since they may not be able to copy everything in the future for competitions. Letting them know a robot that can do everything can be more hindering and take much more work than a robot that can do some tasks well, and let them know of the team work aspect when it comes to competition.

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1 - I would reassure them that failure is a completely normal process of learning anything new. We, as humans, are bound to mess up somewhere and it’s completely natural to feel very enraged if something doesn’t end up our way. I would give any anecdotal experiences I have (asking if they are interested) and how I felt in the moment to how I moved on from it. If they are too frustrated to heed any advice I say (or see my words more as a lecture), I will suggest they take a short break to breathe a little. They may not entirely like or understand this outcome, but I would shortly inform them that taking a breather helps refresh their mind. For example, sleep refreshes the body, but to feel that full feeling of refreshment you would need sufficient hours of sleep and other factors. To get refreshment from this case, it would be good to have a snack break, socialize, and even relax for a minute.

*Personal philosophy: Self-care is essential towards any aspect of the self-subsets of the body like self-esteem in this case.

If they start to feel doubtful of their ability to contribute to the team, I would also reassure them that they may not be the only ones feeling like this. I would not ask other students to raise their hands and share experiences (sounds good in theory) because it puts them in a vulnerable position to share potential personal information and could create a conflict of comparison (of experiences, pain, etc). I would explain instances where I felt a sense of imposter syndrome (and quickly explain what imposter syndrome is/encourage them to look up more information if interested). I believe these types of students are just as vulnerable as the students who tend to be upset but are more willing to listen through any sort of outlet as opposed to shutting out. If they do shut out, however, I would focus more on themselves specifically and list achievements they have done with the team. As a mentor, I hope I can celebrate the little successes the team (as a whole) has made. These problems may stem from a student self-comparing themselves to other students (learning is not a linear path for everyone) or not knowing how to properly deal with their anger (with a heavy ambition to succeed).

2 - I would want to understand their perspective of why they thought certain objectives were of higher priority than others. While I (in this case: the technical mentor) would have more concrete infrastructure for what needs to be done first (due to experience from this course), the student can provide a solid argument if their reasoning is based. By based reasoning, I imply proper research (with or without links), a supporting argument with strong evidence, and perhaps experiences they had in the past (with or without FRC competitions). I would encourage team voting (with the majority, if not the whole team) for this case because I shouldn’t be the sole decider for how the robot will be built (despite my position). I believe this would foster a sense of initiative and involvement for those who wish to include changes after the initial student has proposed. I will be the mediator for this situation to make sure it doesn’t turn into an argument-based conversation with the team. I would not throw away the student’s ideas because that would be a form of discarding their innovations and just genuinely making them feel bad. If the idea is not exactly the best out there, I would be more than willing to provide/ask for some assistance first (“Hey, do you want some input that I have to make this idea slightly better?”) and then constructive criticism (“We can work on this specific component first, then lead with your idea with (adjustments), etc.”). By taking this approach, the possibility of the student solely looking at the bad ends of the constructive criticism will diminish. They will also be more likely to answer yes or give some sort of affirmative when asked a question instead of a demand (“Hey, your idea needs some work and here’s how.”).

3 - I will still gather the team around to observe the changes. I will, however, notify them that since we are under a high-stress break time before we set the robot out to compete, I will make some adjustments. I will briefly explain what adjustments I will be making (due to being under a time limit) and explain more about my decisions/adjustments after the competition. This is still very much the team’s robot so the specific components adjusted should be brought to their attention. If any one of the team members wishes to assist me, I will assign them small-risk tasks that won’t have a big impact if not done on time. If they suspect this and show any signs of doubt, I will reassure them that high-stress environments aren’t the best time to experiment and learn. It just creates tension in finishing a task, whether it is familiar or unfamiliar. I would also remind them that troubleshooting with a robot can be unpredictable (as they have already experienced) and not an extremely fast/correct fix even by myself. If my deduction of any one of the students finishing a task in 3 minutes was correct, I would also mention this point in a positive perspective (“I know you all are capable of getting this task done in 3 minutes if time was nice to us”). I would also want to emphasize more on the importance of team effort, as we all play a component in building the robot.

4 - A first (and slightly haphazard) course of action I would take is to go to each group individually and understand their perspectives. I would not try to reach a middle ground with both groups (physically in person) because this can cause arguments/escalations. Some of the main perspectives I wish to get out of both teams are:

  1. What drew you to this specific group (whether design/building team or shop meeting attendees)?
  2. How much contribution do you wish to put in (and they can explain why if comfortable)?
  3. What do you want to get out of this program/specific group they are in?

These questions do not directly imply the group they have tension with, alongside helping me deduce what type of conflict is arising between these groups. It could be a miscommunication issue where someone from the shop meeting group only visits due to curiosity about wanting to join or not (and the other team not knowing). It could be a personality issue of the build/design group judging the other group as unproductive due to their attendance. It can be various other issues not listed here at all (perhaps some unknown to me).

However, there are numerous reasons why this course of action is rather disorganized. In a realistic setting, I will only be mentoring for less than 10 hours a week and will not see the full story of everything. I will only have so little time to connect with the students that my judgment will be very skewed if tension arises. This first course of action creates a biased perspective if I were to try to intervene and reach a middle ground with each group separately.

A better approach to this would be to inform the instructor that I have seen tension rising and go from there. I trust that the instructor has better management of handling these types of situations. If the groups are disruptive to other teams around them, we (myself and the instructor) may have to sit with them to reach a middle ground.

5 - I would applaud the student on their devotion but also remind them that creating the robot is a team effort. I would then like to frame their ambitions as a chance to be a main coordinator/helping hand for the whole team (like a masked hero saving people in the background). If they question why they need to separate their workload from other team members, I will explain that other students will have the opportunity to learn concepts they haven’t seen before through the work they may be doing (and presumably already familiar with). I would also explain that giving up their portion of work is a huge, selfless act to the team members, helping them grow in ways they couldn’t do before. I would imagine they will be frustrated with any outcome of being told their work has to be split up, but I wish to paint them in a positive light of them still being productive. I would explain that their knowledge can help fellow members during the build season, having another role to play besides pure build/design (like one of leadership). I would also give anecdotal advice on how working in real teams doesn’t solely revolve around singular traits (“Any engineer/technician knows how to design and build. A great engineer/technician knows how to simplify and communicate the design/build to anyone.”). I will explain that this new role may be challenging and unfamiliar territory, but will help them greatly in any future career. If the team is sufficient to help, I will make sure to have tasks on hand for them to concentrate on or help develop other skills.

6 - This question is a hard one to answer because it hits me right in my soul of ambition being a double-edged sword. I would applaud the students on their ambition and devotion to wanting to improve the robot, but remind them that the robot is coming along very nicely. I would explain the concept of trade-offs pretty briefly, but use an example of how adding more components to the robot could result in depletion of material or time. This, in turn, would lead to an unfinished robot and we do not wish for that to happen. I would also sit down with the team as a whole and look over what priorities we have (presuming we made them early in the meeting stages). Some of these priorities specified for the robot design can be:

  1. Make sure we have a fully functional robot before competitions (hopefully furnished).
  2. The robot plays per the rules and does the appropriate tasks (not all) to score points.
  3. Has the proper subsystems needed for the robot to function (electrical, mechanical, design, material, etc).
  4. Much more that could be listed

I would go over the iterations of prototypes I have done with the team and explain how each subsystem came with a trade-off (material gathering to troubleshooting). Unless they come up with a based argument of how a specific component can be implemented under the timeframe we have, I will consider it assuming they are willing to assist me with their endeavors. For now, the current time that I am close to deploying finished subsystems, I will ask the team to assist me on this matter (high priority). I would still take an open approach to encourage their prototyping and design ideas, but let them know there is only so much we can do under a deadline. If we do have time, however, we can start looking at their interests and take in the team’s input (I would mention this as a possibility and motivator).

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Hi Jonathan, this is Jet,

  1. If the student feels doubtful about him/her-self about the task that failed on the robot, I would try my best to cheer them up and motivate them by telling them that it okay that it failed because you can learn from that experience and use that to make a better form of that task they were trying at first. The reason I choose to do this is because not many students can not take failure and try to encourage them to show that yeah it didn’t work but you can learn from it and make a better version. It always takes many failures to make 1 successful decision. The end goal is to make these high school students learn from their mistakes because if they start getting doubtful after one mistake it will be a problem for himself and they can’t look at the bigger picture which they can get if they learn from their mistakes.
  2. If put into that situation, I believe if I did or the another mentor disagrees with the list of proterity, I believe the best course of action is to give my input based on the experience I have or the another mentor does because as mentor we are guiding them to do their best and used our experience to help them get a better sense or insight and have them consider factors they didn’t encounter when they are brainstorming. The end goal of this decision is to give them more information because they are in the brainstorming phase and having mentors can give them insight and other factors they didn’t consider when going for an idea and it helps them get on the right track and think outside the box and other realms of possibility.
  3. In this situation, I will try to notify the team, the other mentor, the teacher ,and the referee/organizers and tell them the situation and it will heavily impact the robot capabilities of the match and depending on the choice most likely have to participate in the next match. This is the decision I would make because based on the time, as a team we should try our best to fix it but if the majority of the team wants to do it I will let them take the lead while I and the other mentor try our best to lead them to the right direction. The end goal of this decision is for the highschool students to learn that in high stress and on the clock choices require a team effort as in this case if they can’t work as a team it will affect the performance of the robot and their overall performance of how they can help each other.
  4. In this situation, I would try to separate the group to prevent a verbal/physical conflict and try to get a perspective of what is happening and the reason why they are acting like that to get an insight and figure out what to do from there. The reason I want to do this is because without the insight I need from both the group I can’t have a solution and if I did without that insight it might make things worse and as a team if there conflict nothing will get done and the trust between them will be lost. In the end of this decision, I want them to have a resolution because building a robot takes a team without that trust and that tension being there it will create problems and with highschoolers they are still developing their own set of judgment and cooperation with others and they need it for robotics and other pursuit in the future.
  5. In this situation, I would pull that student aside with another mentor or teacher by my side and address the issue to that student how it very great that your very passionate but it not good to do everything on your own as you will burn yourself out and your leaving your classmates out and I would suggest for them to talk to their other classmates to help out as they are as passionate as you and it will help in the long run. In this choice, we can address the problem and have they try to interact to their fellow students so they don’t feel like he/she should do everything on their own and should try to cooperate with others to get a sense of teamwork. The end goal of the decision is make sure the students knows that this is a team effort and it good to have that passion and motivation but it will get them no where when they take up 7 different roles at the same time while dealing with other stuff like school or family.
  6. In that situation, I will let the student know that it is a amazing robot but try to make them understand that even though the robot in the video has all the things it can do in the competition, we can’t do it because of the lack of experience and time which is the important. The reason I would do this is because it good to have that imagination but look at the bigger picture as it is great to find sources and watch videos of robots having many components but it takes time and experience to get it done and it should not be fair on the team and let the other team know about it and see if they want to go for it or not. In the end the goal is make them think of hte bigger picture and it great to have these ideas but consider the time, experience, and other teammates judgement and see where you can go from there.
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Hello Jonathan, this is Jared.

  1. If one of the students I am mentoring becomes upset and doubtful about a task that doesn’t go as planned, the first thing I would do is begin to motivate them. A lesson about how everything might not go as planned is needed, and to make sure they are getting the support they need is crucial. Helping them through a process or redoing the task may serve to boost their attitude about working on the robot.

  2. In this case, I would go through all the priorities that are on the list. Making sure that the student understands where I or another mentor is coming from. The student needs to know we have the best interest of the students, team and robot. We are not there to judge or control anyone. We want them to learn but not at the cost of hardships.

  3. For how hectic and fast paced the competition seems to be, I would most likely take the responsibility for myself. I would make sure that multiple students are around me while I do it and I would try to talk about how I did in that time frame. Students are the priority for building a robot, but sometimes in a pinch, it may be easier for me to show how to do it first. After the competition I would definitely talk with them more and see if they are capable of doing those tasks in an ideal time.

  4. I would first talk with the students who don’t seem to be contributing as much. They may be hesitant to join in as they are nervous to mess it up. To then I would encourage them to try it out and don’t worry. They will learn best when they are given tasks to be completed and they have to start somewhere. Another problem may be that the ones contributing are not letting the other students participate. I would likely talk with those students and let them know that the others want to help. I would emphasize that this is a learning experience and the other students need some work to do as well. The students who mainly work may think that they’d lose time if other less experienced students helped out. As a mentor, I have to inform them that everyone should have a chance to do something and that it’s supposed to be a fun, learning experience.

  5. I would first emphasize the importance of working in a team. That teammates can make tasks easier if work is delegated. The student may think that his or her way is the best way, so I’d let them know that an important part of teamwork is trusting your fellow teammate’s skills. We are all here to learn, even the mentors, and it helps a lot when you have people around you working towards the same goal. Maybe also showing that you might not have to work as hard if others can do some of the jobs as well.

  6. This could be team dependent, but I would most likely suggest sticking with the original plan. Unless this is a very mature, hard working and highly knowledgeable group of students, it is likely to be best to stay on the beginning path. Changing plans is potentially wasting lots of time and could hurt the team later down the road. Explaining to them the importance of not changing often will help them understand the reasoning. If later in the build process we get time on our hands, it could be possible to implement some parts of the robots in the video if the students are set on that design.

36
  1. The first thing I would do is reassure the student that this whole process is a learning experience. I think it’s very important to highlight that no one is expecting these student to know everything about everything or have years of robot building experience under their belts. Learning to build a robot isn’t the same level of complexity as learning simple math. This stuff definitely take time and effort and it’s very easy to get discouraged when things don’t work right off the bat. However, these kids just need to be reminded that them having this interest alone shows that they are more than capable of figuring it out. Sometimes after working on something for so long and it feels like you’re stuck in the same position, one might just need to take a break and step away for a second to reset. Sometimes you need to a break to either reset and approach the situation from a different angle or maybe you have to take the time to do more research to understand it better. Regardless, as a mentor we should be constantly be uplifting these students.
  2. As a new and upcoming mentor, I’ve realized that our job isn’t to build the robot for these students. We are supposed to be there to guide them in the right direction and provide support and expertise in areas that they need it. So in regards to a mentor not necessarily agreeing with the priority list/general design direction of the robot, the mentor should provide an explanation or reasoning as to why they disagree (like cost, time difficulty, etc.), in addition to recommending a better alternative route. Just off of the assumption that these high school kids are eager enough to spend a lot of their time working hard on building a robot, it seems natural for them to be excited and even overambitious. While I’m not saying to shut down their ideas, I think that our job has to be more in the area of realistic guidance and support rather taking complete control of their robot plans.
  3. If there is a task that needs to be completed before the next match within 2 minutes and it takes me 1 minute to complete it versus a student that would take 3 minutes, I think for the sake of the competition, the mentor should complete the task to guarantee the robot can compete. However the mentor should have the students there while completing the task and rather than speed racing to completion in one minute, slow down just a bit in order to show and explain to the students what you’re doing. If this specific task ends up needing to be redone again before another match, then a mentor can guide a student to complete the task since they will then have a general idea of what to do.
  4. Since the flow amongst the group of students has already been observed, I think that a mentor should start by gradually increasing the motivation to those who aren’t as engaged as well as providing a more personal guide (one on one help). I think it would be efficient to break them into subgroups that work on different parts of the robot design/building process. While considering the different groups, there should be an equal amount of those who are actively engaged with those who aren’t actively contributing as much. In addition to the subgroups, there should be a specific list of task that they would equally share and keep track of. In regards to the created tension between the students, I would try to get a better understanding of what’s fueling the tension but this should be brought up to the instructor to make sure they’re also aware of the situation.
  5. While I would be heavily impressed by the passion and work ethic of this student, I think it would be important to highlight to the student that this project is a group effort. This program has the end goal of building a moving robot that can compete (and potentially win) however, the journey it takes to get to that end goal is the main learning experience. All the students in the program decided they wanted to take the time to expand their knowledge and hands on experience with FIRST Robotics and they would be losing the opportunity to do so if they don’t have space to contribute. In addition to learning all of the different skills needed to build the robot, these students will also be learning how to collaborate with others, which is a very important skill to have. A mentor can also recommend them to try to share their wide knowledge and skill with the rest of the students to increase the overall work efficiency of the group.
  6. If the team wants to last minute implement complex capabilities to their robot, unfortunately, the mentor needs to paint a realistic picture and time frame for them. Let them know that it’s obviously a great idea and if time allowed, it could definitely be done. However, the biggest pressure applied in this program is time and unless this team has prior experience in working with these complex mechanisms, there just wouldn’t be enough time to design it, build it and ensure it works for the competition. The only alternative I would be able to suggest is that those who would be participating in the program next year can get a head start are understanding the wanted capabilities.
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  1. I think I would remind them that they are in high school, and that they are already so ahead in learning how to become an engineer and things not working out is just part of it. By starting this learning stage so early they’re putting themselves in the position to enter college with design and build experience, and then to do that in the workforce, they’re doing things in high school that some engineers don’t start until their actual career and it’s actually nice to be able to start learning from mistakes before that. I would probably also tell them with ingenuity comes failure, these days large companies that are trying to do new things set aside around 75% of project budgets for failure because it happens, especially in engineering. The most important thing is to learn from your mistakes and modify accordingly until it does work, and sometimes it won’t and you might have to change the whole idea but that is just part of the process and it’s not unique to any one person. I like this route because when I joined SEDS(a club that I’m in) I was really nervous but I realized that embarrassing myself by being less capable now is better than that happening in the work place, but if I was saying it to someone else I would put it in nicer words. I also just know that failure happens a lot in engineering and so it’s important to remember that it happens all the time. Also I would just assist them in figuring out where it went wrong and how we can fix it.
  2. I actually think it’s a good thing when people have conflicting ideas because then you have to pick a better one. Obviously when working with students you have to be kind about it, but in this case I think its good to just sit down and have a discussion to strategically decide what will work better, and even if the students idea isn’t gone with you’re still respecting their opinion and they get to be a part of the decision making process.
  3. I think in this case I would obviously do it if it meant that they could be in it, but I would have a student kind of assist me or at least walk them through what I had to do to do it so that eventually they will be able to do these tasks on their own. As important as it is to have students do things on their own, if they won’t be able to compete over an extra minute of a task it’s not really worth it and you can still make it a learning experience it just won’t be as hands on. Also, if it seems like something that could happen again I would definitely make sure that I teach them how to do it on their own when there was more time, so a student can do it the next time it happens.
  4. First I would talk to the group that is less involved and I would just explain that being on a team like this is a great opportunity but only if you apply yourself. I think as a mentor there is definitely a line I shouldn’t cross, but I might talk to the teacher about how students being there that aren’t doing anything aren’t helping the team or themselves, and maybe if they aren’t participating that they shouldn’t be able to go to competition, especially if they end up traveling. I really think it’s up to the instructor with what to do though, but I would encourage the students who are less involved to become more involved and I would also just publicly praise the students who are being involved for working so hard.
  5. I think I would talk to the student and just explain to them that designs are always going to be the best when multiple people come together to work on it, it allows you to brainstorm and figure out what might be wrong. Also, working on a team is part of the engineering process and it’s one of the important experiences you can get out of this. I would still make sure they know that it’s great that they have so many ideas and that they’re so excited but just make sure you always include others and give other people space to share their ideas, and be open to do their ideas. If the student is unable to do this though I might speak with the instructor to work out more structured team categories or something.
  6. I think I would try to have us sit down and look into what it takes to do the robot and see how realistic it is based on their capabilities. I want them to be inspired so I don’t want to just reject it, and I think it’s cool to challenge yourself, but we would have to figure out if it would just be a challenge or if it would be basically impossible to get it done.
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Hello Jonathan,

  1. I would reassure the student that failing, or rather trial-and-error, is a part of the engineering design process. In order to make this student become excited about their project again, I would ask the student what designs of the robot did work. Thus, celebrating their successful aspects of their design. Next, I would question what could be modified to get the desired results. Discussing with them about the design process will help motivate them to keep trying, as well as guiding them towards a situation that works. The goal would be for them to not think about the negative thoughts while pushing towards a more desired outcome.

  2. I would suggest a priority matrix to give a visual representation of what should be completed first. With factors of pieces such as reliance on other parts, time consumption, etc. The reason for this alternative is to visually show why certain parts of the design might have been overlooked or under-looked. This approach aims to deter any arguments from either side of the team or mentor. The end goal is to give a plan of action throughout the whole project, therefore, everyone will be able to be organized and stay on track.

  3. I would suggest having the student complete the task with supervision and I will use instructions if any hiccups occur. This would still allow the student to be in charge of fixing, while learning the debugging process. The important part is having the student become more proficient and independent, for the times a mentor is not present. The use of supervision will ensure that it gets completed within the time frame needed for the match. However, in the long term, it is essential for the student to be able to teach and lead future generations.

  4. I would have both teams connect with each other, in a meeting setting, where they may freely express their thoughts and emotions on certain topics involving the team. If tensions grow in the meeting I will intervene, but otherwise, I will have them talk it out. I tend to find that misunderstanding can lead to tension, so understanding one another can help each party to grow and contribute. I feel like this would be helpful for the growth of the team, by allowing them to figure everything out for the current year, and using this experience to better understand future goals. The other attempt would be to see what is preventing students from working on the project.

  5. I would pull the student to the side. I would proceed to question if they are aware of what they are doing, and what is the main reason for them wanting to own many aspects of the project. I would then suggest that having many hands can get more work done than one person alone. I would also advise them of the potential problems that could occur with this approach. Although, learning different aspects of the project can make someone more versatile and knowledgeable. However, only do so when the main task is done. The end goal would be to encourage the student to be more open, rather than closing off the team.

  6. I would warn the student that by changing direction on their project could cause the overall project to be delayed. So I would suggest to the team to decide if it is possible to adapt the changes in time, or if it is better to finely improve the design they are currently working on. By having them analyze the difference of their inspired design with their current design might reveal how feasible it is to accomplish. I would suggest they move in the same direction, but instead use parts of the inspired robot design to further improve their project. It is important to keep students passionate and energetic, thus shooting down the design too quickly, without explaining, could potentially hurt the progression in the long-run for the team.
    -Devin

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Hello Jonathan!

  1. If a student works hard on something they are excited about and the results don’t come into fruition as expected, I’d investigate and ask what’s wrong, what he/she wanted to accomplish, and why it didn’t work at first. Then having that in mind, work with the student to find a solution that either improves the result of their goal, or transitions it into something I know would be more successful and satisfying.

  2. If I or a mentor disagree with the list of priority, I’d want to bring it up to the rest of the mentors to get various opinions on it before committing to changing anything. It could be a very important concern that needs to be addressed, or simply a misunderstanding the mentor has that should be corrected as early as possible. It could also be a personal preference of some kind. Regardless, get more inputs from the other mentors and if need be, bring it up to the rest of the class next meeting and see if we can compromise with the students or at least get everyone’s feedback.

  3. I’d say that it is important to get this task done first. It is important for the students to see their hard work preforming well on the field and if that means that I need to solo one task, then I will do it. Next time I can, however, be it next group meeting or the next competition after this immediate one, I would like to bring it up and either explain how/what I did or have that student replicate it. I do feel bad for the one student who could have done it in 3 minutes, but if we had him/her start it and almost finish before the time the robot is needed on the field, I feel like that would be worse for not just that student, but all the other students who put work into this robot.

  4. I’d want to converse with the students one on one to understand why they are taking this elective if they don’t want to participate and come up with a solution for their specific situation. If they want to work but don’t know how/what to do, I’d give them small simple tasks (still important for the robot) and work their way up to collaborating with the other students. If its a student who doesn’t even want to be there or is forced to be there for any reason, I’d likely get them to do something similar: some small tasks that do improve the robot, but are also simple enough for the student to do that they wont feel like its work. Hopefully with enough small tasks the students will have a stake in the project and be more attached to it, but having them do something, anything, is better than nothing at all.

  5. I think that I might make them a leader of some sort. A team leader who is able to delegate tasks to other students and still have their hand on many aspects of the robot. This way he/she feels responsible to not only make the best design he/she can, but also responsible to make sure other students are working as well and have something to do.

  6. I would suggest to the students to take inspiration from the video rather than directly copy it, because yes it is a perfect design but we spent half of the build season building this robot and its not yet done, how can we expect to make a whole different robot before competitions start? If we can, I’d love to incorporate some of this robot’s designs, but it won’t be the main part of our robot.

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We’re starting a new school year, so I wanted to re-engage in this thread hoping to get some additional responses to the earlier questions.

There are some good responses to the original post, but if anyone can provide a fresh take I’d appreciate it:

For mentors, what are some things you’d like college mentors to come into your shops knowing? How could they be most helpful to you and your teams?

For students, what are your expectations of your mentors? What could they do to support you and ensure that you have a good experience in FRC?

Also, after being 2 years into teaching this course, some other questions I have for mentors. It seems like school/mentor pairing can sometimes be a challenge especially when it comes to schedule, mentor philosophies, the level of ownership or impact on how a team operates.

What practices do you use to test how a new mentor fits within your current program and mentor group?

In what ways can new mentors take ownership over parts of how the team runs?

Are their some common ways new mentors may step on the toes of the existing team members/mentors that they might not be aware of?

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This is a really cool opportunity! To answer your “for mentors” question, here’s some ideas:

  • Be prepared to be completely honest about the time commitment of mentoring. As someone who jumped into mentoring my last year of college (aka this last season), I struggled with how much time I could put towards my team. These college students need to know that this isn’t an easy thing to balance unless they’re truly willing to commit to mentoring, even if its for a class.
  • They shouldn’t just be engineering-based mentors. Tell them there’s more to robots than just the robot. Teams need help with graphic design, documentation, public speaking, etc
  • They should be willing to learn more about FIRST from both the students and mentors. A lot of the program can be learned on the fly and teams can help make that easier and more fun.
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