I am the most rhythemless black man on the face of the planet and I loathe dancing. I think there is a public ordinance in the New York State legislature banning me from doing it in public to keep other from suffering from the smae disease. That being said the dancing and fun part of FIRST is what makes FIRST the amazing display that it is.
Our team had each and every member write an essay about what FIRST is to each of us. If I may I would like to borrow a couple of excerpts from it. FIRST what I think a competition is:
It was like a big party wrapped around a remarkable sporting event that was like nothing ever seen before with its distinctive strategies and alliance structures with an Oscar ceremony latched onto the back end for good measure.
Nothing sells FIRST better than a FIRST competition. And it’s not just the robots or the togetherness of the teams or even the competition itself. Alot of it is the atmosphere that flows freely in the arena and infects everyone in the arena in their own special way.
FIRST is different things to different people. It used to bug when when every kid wasn’t going to grow up to be a Kim O’Toole or an Adrienne Emerson or a John V. Nuen. I figured we failed somehow and they just were wasting their time on the team. but now I realize that they were getting something out of it. Whether that be seeking to teach others about the virtues of science and technology or just having a good time they didn’t walk away uninspired. Everyone’s heart just beat a little different and they take from the competition something different.
Both the students and the mentors. Or as I stated at the end of my essay:
*What I truly believe make FIRST so unique and so fabulous is that it give students the opportunity to try on the clothes of responsibility and expectation. To look into the possible future that perhaps awaits them while at the same time giving the adult mentors a chance to recapture the excitement youthful discovery and sense of exuberant joy that permeates throughout the lives of the young that help fuel the drive that led them to where they are this day to help the next generation reach their potential.
*
I would like to add that we are talking about some young people here who are not comfortable in the typical athletic event setting, but want to have many of the same experiences. I have had a number of students tell me that being on a FIRST team is literally the first team they have ever been on.
The regionals that I have seen are allowing these kids to celebrate in an appropriate way. I personally experience a great deal of satisfaction when I see a young person who has been afraid to show that type of emotion in public suddenly racing across the field with joy or relaxing and dancing.
This is a part of the way in which lives are changed by FIRST and I think sponsors know this.
How do you know that those kids dancing in the stands had nothing to do with the robot? Perhaps two of them assisted in the design and build of the manipulator, but are in the stands so as to not overcrowd the pit. Others may have the job of scouting the event, and are using the break to clear their minds. Maybe 3 of them have returned to the stands after their award-winning Chairmans presentation.
Granted there are always problems with getting students involved. On larger teams I suspect it is harder than on smaller ones, as some of the kids tend to get lost in the crowd. There are generally 3 groups of students
the core group that is always there, whenever the shop is open
another bunch of very dedicated kids, who also participate in other activities, and come to robotics whenever they are able
a group that you just aren’t sure when you will see them
Of course we want to minimize the number of students in that last group. But perhaps the fun of the competitions, the cameraderie they have with other team members, the other more “social” aspects of the team, are what keep them coming. And somewhere along the line, it clicks for them, and suddenly they’re in group 1. Or maybe they stay in group 3 all the while they’re on the team, but it gives them a taste for what engineering and technology is all about, and they make a college decision based on that. Inspiration comes in many flavors.
And personally, I’ve seen far too many professional gatherings that could have been improved immensely by a line dance!
Dave’s quote puts it best. If you think the people you’re bringing to the competition would think lowly of the program because of the “kewl” part then you don’t want them as sponsors.
And I don’t think that many people are UBER-MAD that the dancing went over by one minute.
I’m a detail-oriented nerd, and not a good dancer. Not even a so-so dancer.
But I agree with Dave, Ed, Cathy, and many, many others who see the importance of celebration. Paying attention while executives and politicians speak to the crowd is a form of celebration, but dancing is much more immediate. Orders of magnitude more immediate.
At St. Louis yesterday, our field crew worked hard to get a few minutes ahead of schedule, so we could put all the team mascots out on the field for ten minutes of dancing right before the finals. The crowd seemed to enjoy it, and the teams still competing were probably glad to get the time without using one of their time-outs.
When we’re doing things right, everyone at an FRC event should feel like dancing, even those who aren’t good at it.
I have to agree with you here. Even if you don’t like the dancing you can think of it as a chance to let go after a very long period of stress. BTW stress usually isn’t kind to our bodies if present too long.
I had a lot of stressful situations at the competition over the past three days. As we were waiting for one of our semifinal matches yesturday they took a time out for robot repairs. I usually don’t dance but when the YMCA came on I just couldn’t help but dance. After the dancing was done I felt very relieved.
I’ve met with many sponsors, parents, judges and other adults (volunteers and spectators) who’s primary contact time with FIRST is a regional event. They love they energy of the events - including the dancing. I took my Mom to the inaugural St. Louis Regional (2002?) and she was all grins watching students and mentors doing the chicken dance. It clearly impressed her that this program allows kids of all ages to “let their hair down” and enjoy themselves.
Certainly, the matches are intense and the crowd responds with cheers to team introductions, exciting finishes and scores being posted. I don’t think that the level of energy (cheering and applauding) can be sustained between the finals matches (6+ minutes) without some other crowd participation activity. So, why NOT dancing? Even if you suck at dancing as much as I do, you can dance at a FIRST regional without fear of ridicule - especially if you believe others around you are laughing with you not at you.
One other thing, as far as I know, there are not many people being paid to participate in the regionals, so the “professionalism” rules of the office (except at Google) don’t really apply at a FIRST competition. If you’re looking for the kind of professionalism that exists in a design review, don’t expect students, mentors and volunteers to be attracted to the program.
My wife adds that dancing is an expression of the soul and the soul is meant to be happy! Celebrate!!!
I dont think this thread is in the right place. What Henry is saying is he is worried that some students dont get involved and arent inspired. What does that have to do with dancing? I’ll say it again it is up to each team and each student to make sure they get what they want to out of FIRST. You cant force a student to do anything. Maybe they are just joining because it is a social event. Is there anything wrong with that? They are still getting some experience that they wouldnt have had. This is probably the case for most freshmen, because they dont know what they are getting into. They will learn over the summer, and come back as Sophomores and are more able to contribute.
I am going to quote one of our mentors from last year who runs a college engineering lab “I’ve had kids that come into my program that dont even know how to work a screwdriver. You kids will learn so much and it will put you ahead of the game, even if you only learned to use a screwdriver through FIRST.” May not be exact, but that was his point. Even if kids arent as involved as some they will still get a little experience. If they wouldnt have joined FIRST, they wouldnt have that experience. Like I said what the kids get out of it is up to them. If they want to learn alot they will, if they just want to get their feet wet they will.
Joey
The way that I look at it is that everyone expresses their enthusiasm in different ways. As someone who spent 13 years of my life in a dance studio (both prior to and during my time in FIRST), I learned to express my emotions through physical movement. And that’s how I look at dancing at competitions. These kids are excited, they’re trying to get it out. For me, by nature, emotions are let out via physical movement.
There is, however, a line, and I’m sure that most of us know where that is. FIRST competitions are obviously not the place for “dirty dancing”, and for the most part, I haven’t seen them treated as one.
So I guess that my overall thoughts are, dance the night away. One thing that I have learned in business/accounting school, is that business-people enjoy having fun as much as the next person. They may not be the ones standing out there breaking it down with you, but they’re the ones laughing along with you.
All,
I appreciate the feedback, but there are still generalizations being made that I did not state.
1)GO CRAZY! I am just not down with the on field dancing.
2)I would hate it if FIRST was a stoic, office like atmosphere.
3)I am not saying that anyone who dances has no purpose on the team, far from that. My only issue is that the kids with no function, the ones who have fallen through the cracks, generally are out there dancing with friends from school. I am well aware of the value and worth of the PR team, the fund raising team, the animations team etc. A FIRST team is a team, as previously stated. It has many facets.
Go absolutely nuts for your team and the things that have been accomplished. Having fun can be done in any manner of ways. I would just like a little more game preservation.
I don’t see how the on field dancing is so horrible could you please explain in a PM or send a message to me on AIM. And how can you say the ones of the field dancing are the ones with no function?
I feel that the dancing interferes with the time low of the game.
Kids with any number of functions may or may not dance, I am not assuming here.
Kids with no function, that I have seen, generally are out dancing, not paying attention to the competition, hanging out in the arena etc. That does not in any way mean that the kids who dance don’t have a function. I am just saying that SOME don’t. It is THOSE kids that I am concerned for.
Can every one just stop talking about the dancing? It is what the thread is about, but not the issue that Henry is talking about.
What are you concerned about? Read some of my earlier posts in this thread. It is up to the students about how much they get out of the program. FIRST sets up a program to succeed, all students need to do is commit. You need to stop worrying about those who dont commit because it is their choice. If they dont want to take advantage of this opportunity it is their own problem. Kids will have more fun when they get involved, but they need to take it upon themselves. If they dont want to commit, just go with it. Focus on teaching those who are commited to working and doing their jobs, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with the robot.
Joey
I read those posts and I agree. I am aware of the students choice to do what they wish to do. I am concerned for the growth of the group of kids who don’t have a role. Eventually pushing some quantity of the members of FIRST in a direction that is not encapsulated in the ideals of the program.
Well, Henry, that brings up a few things (not the recent post, the one above Laaba’s):
Either you asked these students/kids what their team position is, or you spent way too much time following them around.
Define “falling through the cracks”. For the lack of memory and “googling” skills I’ll just lightly remind you of Bill Gates. There are many, many others.
I understand now where the dancing part comes in, thanks for clarifying it. I do understand that sometimes the dancing may carry on a few minutes more than expected. But if you’re a volunteer, that is almost implied, and you really don’t have to be here. Cruel, but true. If you’re a team member/mentor who does not want to dance, fine. That’s your choice. But this is somewhat a celebration, so they’re just having fun. Besides, what’s the rush? Yes, there is a schedule, and for the most part it is followed pretty strictly by the officials and teams. But even if you’re running late, there must be some time to dance, dance, dance.
Joey,
I think it is ok to talk about all the topics in this thread, dancing being one of them. After some time has passed and we are into the lazy hazy days of summertime, this will be a great thread to read and reflect on. Some of the posts on all the topics involved have been great reads with valuable insights, separately and together.
As the thread has developed, the individual topics have become more evident and so we are dealing with several in one thread. And that’s ok, so far we are all managing to work with communication. It’s a great opportunity to pay attention to everything that is being said. This has happened in team meetings. One topic evolves into 3 or 4 and then everyone is talking and then chaos. But - if handled carefully and with respect, all topics are listened to, addressed, or tabled for future consideration. This thread reminds me of that.
[IMHO] This depends on the entire team as well as those specific kids who are “falling through the cracks.”
It is up to the mentors, teachers, and captains to make sure that everyone in the stands has a role and responsibility. Its not like teams let kids join and don’t teach them how to do anything (if there are then they need to change that).
For example, we generally have over 50 people in the stands. There are generally 10 students scouting for matches. Then, there are the multiple alternates we have for each scout. There are also alternates for the scout captains b/c let’s face it, scouting isn’t the most fun thing in the world. There are students who are there to scout in the pit area and then report back to field scouts. Then there are liaisons who are constantly communicating with the drive team/programming/scout team and also other alliance partners. So as you can see, it really depends on how strong of an organization that team you are talking about really is. The student involvement is not only individual but also communal.
When I clicked on this thread to read about it, I was interested in reading about the dancing because that’s what the thread is about. Henry’s other issue is a tangent in a thread about dancing, so maybe you should be asking a moderator to split the tangent into another thread or start a new thread about it so that people who do not click on this thread because they have no opinion one way or another on dancing at the competitions can decide if they want to discuss the crack fallers. If another thread is started on that subject, I’ll comment on it then.
Every job I’ve had as an adult has had Holiday parties, summer picnics, and other celebratory gatherings for “jobs well done.” And we’ve danced, secretaries, managers, counselors, directors, tech support… we’ve all danced. I also think of the competitions as a reward for all of the hard work everyone involved with FIRST has done. No, I wouldn’t jump on the table during a board meeting and do the Funky Chicken, just as the refs and announcers aren’t doing the Funky Chicken during the matches.
Our students have often volunteered to show VIPs around at the VCU competition. There’s a wonderful balance between the hard work going on in the pits to the fierce intensity of the matches and the joyful celebration between the matches that has done nothing but impress those VIPs. Over the years I have invited friends of mine to the competitions: a mechanical engineer, a civil engineer, an astronomer, a medical technician, a public relations manager, a computer programmer, etc. Everything about the competitions impressed them, including the dancing. To them, the dancing is a reflection of happiness and enthusiasm, and all of them have remarked that they wished they had something in their lives that inspired so much enthusiasm.
I only said stop talking about the dancing because people seem to be trying to put words into Henry’s mouth. He has said he doenst have a problem with dancing multiple times. If people want to talk about dancing, thats fine, however that is not the “big” issue Henry is talking about.
Joey
