Cost Containment

FIRST General Forum
1

Posted by Chris, Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.

Posted on 4/5/99 11:57 AM MST

At the end of a post later in this board, I made mention of cost capping. I think that it may be lost in the shuffle so I’m making a post about this issue on its own.

I’ve tried doing a lot of recruiting to get teams into FIRST, but what I hear time and time again is that the cost is too high. Some teams had to drop out for this reason. I know FIRST tries to make the competition a show so it catches people’s attention. Creating a show atmosphere does raise the costs of the competition, though.

This is a subject that is being talked about all over the place. Anyone in the auto industry knows about cost containment. This has been a huge issue in sports. The NBA lockout was because the owners needed cost containment or they couldn’t afford to run teams anymore, the NFL instituted a salary cap, baseball has the luxury tax, the NCAA has limited scholarships, and racing has limited practice sessions (as I stated before).

There are issues about reducing costs. If you reduce costs does this limit the educational value? Is lowering the educational value per student a good tradeoff for spreading the experience to more students? (i.e. what is better: more intensity for fewer students or less intensity for more students?) Afterall, lower costs will bring in more teams and help struggling teams stay alive.

I would like to know what everyone’s feeling is on cost containment. Should there be none? Should there be some? If so, how?

I’m sure everyone is aware of my proposal (limiting regionals) and is sick of hearing about it. Does anyone else have any ideas?

2

Posted by Bethany Dunning, Coach on team #163, Quantum Mechanics, from International Academy and Quantum Consultants/EATON/ITT Industries.

Posted on 4/5/99 12:42 PM MST

In Reply to: Cost Containment posted by Chris on 4/5/99 11:57 AM MST:

I have a question: where does our $4000 for each entry fee go to? Running the
regional? Paying FIRST staff? Do they pay for facilities? Could they find more
corporate sponsorships to support FIRST as a whole?

: At the end of a post later in this board, I made mention of cost capping. I think that it may be lost in the shuffle so I’m making a post about this issue on its own.

: I’ve tried doing a lot of recruiting to get teams into FIRST, but what I hear time and time again is that the cost is too high. Some teams had to drop out for this reason. I know FIRST tries to make the competition a show so it catches people’s attention. Creating a show atmosphere does raise the costs of the competition, though.

: This is a subject that is being talked about all over the place. Anyone in the auto industry knows about cost containment. This has been a huge issue in sports. The NBA lockout was because the owners needed cost containment or they couldn’t afford to run teams anymore, the NFL instituted a salary cap, baseball has the luxury tax, the NCAA has limited scholarships, and racing has limited practice sessions (as I stated before).

: There are issues about reducing costs. If you reduce costs does this limit the educational value? Is lowering the educational value per student a good tradeoff for spreading the experience to more students? (i.e. what is better: more intensity for fewer students or less intensity for more students?) Afterall, lower costs will bring in more teams and help struggling teams stay alive.

: I would like to know what everyone’s feeling is on cost containment. Should there be none? Should there be some? If so, how?

: I’m sure everyone is aware of my proposal (limiting regionals) and is sick of hearing about it. Does anyone else have any ideas?

3

Posted by Mike King, Other on team #88, TJ², from Bridgewater Raynham and Johnson & Johnson Professional.

Posted on 4/5/99 9:50 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: Cost Containment posted by Bethany Dunning on 4/5/99 12:42 PM MST:

: I have a question: where does our $4000 for each entry fee go to? Running the
: regional? Paying FIRST staff? Do they pay for facilities?

To the above questions. Yes (with ALOT of help from the corporate sponsors)

: Could they find more
: corporate sponsorships to support FIRST as a whole?

Believe me, they are trying.

mike

4

Posted by Greg Mills, Engineer on team #16, Baxter Bomb Squad, from Mountain Home and Baxter Healthcare.

Posted on 4/5/99 1:03 PM MST

In Reply to: Cost Containment posted by Chris on 4/5/99 11:57 AM MST:

: Some time in the near future, the size of FIRST is going to require teams to qualify before the Nationals. I think the question of limiting regionals will take care of itself. The Regionals will become a true ‘regional competition’. Cost containment is a decision each team must now make. We might go to a class system that teams are placed according to money spent (honor system), but I don’t think people with money should be prevented from spending it as they see fit.

At the end of a post later in this board, I made mention of cost capping. I think that it may be lost in the shuffle so I’m making a post about this issue on its own.

: I’ve tried doing a lot of recruiting to get teams into FIRST, but what I hear time and time again is that the cost is too high. Some teams had to drop out for this reason. I know FIRST tries to make the competition a show so it catches people’s attention. Creating a show atmosphere does raise the costs of the competition, though.

: This is a subject that is being talked about all over the place. Anyone in the auto industry knows about cost containment. This has been a huge issue in sports. The NBA lockout was because the owners needed cost containment or they couldn’t afford to run teams anymore, the NFL instituted a salary cap, baseball has the luxury tax, the NCAA has limited scholarships, and racing has limited practice sessions (as I stated before).

: There are issues about reducing costs. If you reduce costs does this limit the educational value? Is lowering the educational value per student a good tradeoff for spreading the experience to more students? (i.e. what is better: more intensity for fewer students or less intensity for more students?) Afterall, lower costs will bring in more teams and help struggling teams stay alive.

: I would like to know what everyone’s feeling is on cost containment. Should there be none? Should there be some? If so, how?

: I’m sure everyone is aware of my proposal (limiting regionals) and is sick of hearing about it. Does anyone else have any ideas?

5

Posted by Chris, Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.

Posted on 4/5/99 2:40 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: Cost Containment posted by Greg Mills on 4/5/99 1:03 PM MST:

I suppose I should have stated this before:

I didn’t necessarily want to limit the discussion to having FIRST force teams not to buy jump suits to save money something along those lines. (Although someone could propose these types of ideas if they wanted to, but I don’t personally care if teams do this).

Feel free to comment also on what FIRST can do to lower costs. Example: Should they reduce the quality of the lights and sound, or take other measures to reduce the entry fee? Should FIRST use its size to better negotiate deals at Disney?

: : Some time in the near future, the size of FIRST is going to require teams to qualify before the Nationals. I think the question of limiting regionals will take care of itself. The Regionals will become a true ‘regional competition’. Cost containment is a decision each team must now make. We might go to a class system that teams are placed according to money spent (honor system), but I don’t think people with money should be prevented from spending it as they see fit.
: __________________

: At the end of a post later in this board, I made mention of cost capping. I think that it may be lost in the shuffle so I’m making a post about this issue on its own.

: : I’ve tried doing a lot of recruiting to get teams into FIRST, but what I hear time and time again is that the cost is too high. Some teams had to drop out for this reason. I know FIRST tries to make the competition a show so it catches people’s attention. Creating a show atmosphere does raise the costs of the competition, though.

: : This is a subject that is being talked about all over the place. Anyone in the auto industry knows about cost containment. This has been a huge issue in sports. The NBA lockout was because the owners needed cost containment or they couldn’t afford to run teams anymore, the NFL instituted a salary cap, baseball has the luxury tax, the NCAA has limited scholarships, and racing has limited practice sessions (as I stated before).

: : There are issues about reducing costs. If you reduce costs does this limit the educational value? Is lowering the educational value per student a good tradeoff for spreading the experience to more students? (i.e. what is better: more intensity for fewer students or less intensity for more students?) Afterall, lower costs will bring in more teams and help struggling teams stay alive.

: : I would like to know what everyone’s feeling is on cost containment. Should there be none? Should there be some? If so, how?

: : I’m sure everyone is aware of my proposal (limiting regionals) and is sick of hearing about it. Does anyone else have any ideas?