OP Post was deleted due to being an anon and duplicate account. Topic can stay up otherwise. - Tyler
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I think it’s a bit to early for a post like this and feel like the suppliers have always kept us in the loop the best they can without causing the opposite issue, it’s called Vexmas for a reason and its only 11/1.
With that said it is nice to hear about these things sooner, but I think over the past few years the suppliers have heard this and have been getting better.
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Try reading the product release threads from these suppliers, where company representatives have time and time again been extremely transparent about their situations and expectations regarding supply. Both companies you’ve mentioned have posted information answering your questions.
If you can’t find your answer there, reach out to them. They all have support emails, they all have phone numbers you can call. Put in the bare minimum amount of effort to get the information you need and you’ll probably get it. This is the industry standard. If you want answers, go ask for them.
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What I want to hear from the suppliers as a manufacturing engineer. An example script, suppliers feel free to madlib or adapt as needed.
“(Quantity) of (item) is expected to arrive at our warehouse on (date). Once we get them, it will take us a (time period) to process the inventory before sale. We will post updates as we get them on any delays that we find out about between now and the availability date.”
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Rev has been pretty on top of things it seems when they know they let us know.
Vex also tends to give at least some notice before restocking things to give teams time to prepare.
Also like Rich said
Shipping doesn’t take 2 months it’s typically a week max in my experience even when you select the slowest cheapest shipping option so I’ll echo what Rich said
While i would agree the issues with the Falcons are quite frustrating.
Maybe wait til mid December with no news to make this kind of post.
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In addition to what Andrew mentions above, I think its important to maintain perspective that the supply chain issues are complicated by the fact that this is a niche market with relatively inelastic expectations on price. I imagine suppliers could provide various components at stead stock levels if they charge us 400% more than they do now, but as it stands, having to meet the price expectations of FRC teams likely leaves much thinner margins for the prices suppliers can afford to pay for the components that go into these parts. Its not unreasonable to imagine there can be a bidding war for overseas component and manufacturing resources with companies in other industries that are willing to pay a lot more and then subsequently markup their product a lot more. This could obviously lead to unexpected delays as well where overseas suppliers reallocate components to a higher bidder. While all of this is just my hypothesis, I can say I personally am facing the same supply chain challenges at my day job, so its not inconceivable that some of these issues can apply to this case.
I’ve always found FRC vendors to have very reasonable customer service that will at least attempt to provide the best known information in a timely manner, even if that information changes unexpectedly.
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The supply chain discussion is cool and all but im more interested in if the motors will finally work straight out of the box. Shipping times are useless if i dont even get the product i paid for.
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This is not an advisement on stocking status. It is a statement that if you put your email in a box you will know when the product is back in stock.
I will already know when the product comes back in stock, because 30 seconds after it does, the news will be all over CD, before things are out of stock 10 minutes later.
Suppliers need to set limits on how many of each product a team can buy (say, 2 control systems and 12 Falcons) and give real updates on if a product is likely to be in stock preseason. At this point I don’t know if it’s worth using the REV control system and Falcons on drive, because we can’t buy any. My current recommendation to 1072 is to use the CTRE control system until further notice, and use old Falcons for the drivetrain.
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To add to this I assume my team isn’t alone that we have no ability to order same day and barely even same week. We have little opportunity to purchase the hot items unless there’s excess stock.
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This is why 3512 will be avoiding Falcons for 2023, we just couldn’t justify leaving things till November, possibly December to try out a new-to-us motor on a new-to-us drivetrain (swerve).
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These are nice notions for teams that can order stuff as soon as it restocks. But shipping isn’t the only delay in the world of FRC team procurement. This kind of “Just-in-Time Supply Chain” existed before COVID, and has only become worse due to the global supply chain issues. But it very much was happening before that point as well, with FRC vendors unveiling and re-stocking products at later-and-later dates, including products that wouldn’t become available until during build season. This can make sense for the vendors, as they don’t have to have supply sitting on their warehouse shelves, but it isn’t great for teams. And, in particular, it isn’t great for the teams that are working thru school-based ordering systems.
It’s important to remember that CD over-represents the higher end of the FRC curve, and that includes teams with their own 501c3s/non-profits and professional mentors with purchasing power who can make orders in the middle of the day on a moment’s notice. Conversely, it under-represents teams that are reliant on a school to place their orders for them and/or teacher-based teams. These teams often need time to process orders, and that time often does not exist when products are restocked for only a matter of hours (or minutes). School administrator’s often aren’t willing to put aside what they’re doing to meet the needs of any one extracurricular activity. Moreover, when products aren’t being stocked until “mid-December,” you run into all sorts of holiday breaks, school closures, inclement weather, shipping delays, and simply times when the build facility (aka school) isn’t open to receive a package. Nothing hurts more than seeing your tracking number indicate an item was returned to sender because it didn’t show up until a school was on a holiday break and there was nobody at the school to receive the delivery attempt.
My team had to start a 501c3 booster club to deal with these (and other financial) issues several years ago, and while I’d suggest that for any team that’s able to, the FRC vendor ecosystem shouldn’t be catering only to the teams with the means to do so. The COTS revolution has helped so many teams across the competitive spectrum, but over time several key vendors have settled into a schedule that shifts the advantages of that ecosystem increasingly towards teams on the upper end of the team capability spectrum. It’s worth it to have threads like these that remind vendors that the Just-In-Time Supply Chain may work for them, but it certainly hurts plenty of teams.
Even as a team with a 501c3, it’s reaching the point where we need to purchase FRC-specific materials for next build season during the windows in which they’re available in the current build season. Even more-so if you’re interested in experimenting with newer products in off-season projects.
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I 100% get this and don’t disagree that it would be better to have restocks sooner and things more transparent as well as the Falcon issues resolved. I think I just wasn’t a fan of the “tone” of the OP and I don’t think they intentionally “keep us in the dark”, I like to think they are doing the best they can with the current given circumstances (ie supply chain issues and repeated falcon issues). Like I tried to say in my post, pre covid and supply chain issues I feel like all the suppliers were trying to make pushes in this area, but the state of current world events have not been in our/their favor.
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I think the tone-policing is unnecessary. People have a right to be upset.
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OP Post was deleted due to being an anon and duplicate account. Topic can stay up otherwise.
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As a team that’s lucky enough to have the resources to deal with the falcon and supply chain issues (having things stocked/left over/being able to order things when they come in stock as well as the bandwidth to do falcon repairs) that my experiences may be better then most and therefore get that I may be in the “wrong” here/not fully understand the frustration.
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Can the text of the original post be copied for preservation?
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No. I don’t have a desire to promote anon and duplicate accounts and a user has been suspended until the end of the year for doing so and working on another.
Top topic and replies provide enough info for the discussion which is why it is left up instead of perma deleting the thread.
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I’m glad I’m not the only person stressing about this and endlessly digging through our favorite suppliers websites for a -hint- as to when Falcons are expected…
Swerve Drive gets points for posting their shipping projections by order date! They, of course, are making parts in the US, so they don’t have as much supply chain complexity as many other vendors.
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Shoutout to WCP and SDS for having exceptional communication about what the current stock status of items are. Both suppliers have spreadsheets open that show the shipping dates for each product that is backordered, and makes these sheets easy to access. If other suppliers do this then shoutout to them too, it helps so much.
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