Deep Space is going to be ruined by Defence

defense

#203

At CPR, the #1 alliance put up an event high score of 81 in Q1-1 followed by 79 in Q1-2 and 77 in S1-1.

The #2 alliance put up a new event high score of 88 in S2-1 and 89 in S2-3.

In the Finals with #1 vs #2, the rookie “woodbot” played brilliant defense and kept the #2 to 63 and 69, about 25% lower than their previous two matches. 4627 kept #1 down to 68 and 76. The match videos appear to be slowly being uploaded. The finals were particularly exciting. The Kiwi “rookies”, 7498, were particularly fun to watch, drifting all over the field with their 8 Redline drivetrain and sub-90 pound weight.


#204

This bracket is not possible.


#205

It was #3 over #5 per TBA. @GeeTwo


#206

I agree. Amarillo showed what can and probably will happen at higher elo events. From district champs onward, defense will be played by the winning alliance. I believe that the alliance that wins worlds will have a strong defense bot


#207

Here is an example of defense helping. Quarter finals at Westtown tie breaker after a tie (ended up in a loss due to penalty tie breaker rules), then a win it came down to this tie breaker. I think without the defense we would have ended up winning this match. The other team ended up going on to win the competition.


#208

There is no lack of defense… MABRI (new England Week 2) really was packed, especially in playoffs.

-AJ


#209

From what I understand defense wasn’t what held the score low. Go back and watch, 3310 was the only scoring robot that match a little after teleop started. I don’t want to speculate but it looks like 148 was having some sort of issue.


#210

Its not the strategic aspect of defense that worries me, its that even if you win your robot will not be able to play due to damage. There needs to be better rules about extension into frames.


#211

It depends on the refs at each regional. At CVR, the rule was being called closely and we had a number of fouls and yellow cards.


#212

I don’t have a problem with defense, it did make the elimination rounds far more fun to watch. The hard part for me is the rules that surround the Human Player Station. The defender can just park in front of the hab zone with nothing to fear. There’s not enough room to drive around them and pushing them into the zone is a penalty on the offensive robot (as told to me by a referee). To me this is the biggest hole in the rules right now.


#213

Yeah at MWR there was not one call on a defense bot, even with damage occurring to a couple of robots. Not sure what would have led to a call (refs said it wasn’t intentional/they didn’t see the damage) but its something to watch for.


#214

I’m not sure why you call it that. There is a choke point at each rocket. When we don’t want a robot near our player station, we stop them at the choke point. Nothing simpler…

And mostly they don’t do that anyway. There are 2 player stations so we’ll just go to the other one. It’s just not that useful for them.


#215

God, AA was such a good game. It forced teams to actively cooperate with each other as opposed to essentially having an alliance just try to not get in each other’s way, it was easy to understand what was happening in a match, strategy was invaluable as you needed to have the three positions of ‘inbounder,’ ‘trusser,’ and score-er’ while still having all of them contribute to defense, and, something that may be a bit of an unpopular opinion, I loved that there was no endgame that could suddenly swing the game one way or another. If we could get another game like this, I would be so happy.


#216

Maybe we should call it “Offensive” or “Attack” instead of “Defense”. Or how the MC at Tech Valley Regional called it “bullying” during Qualifications 52 - 2019 New York TVR –https://youtu.be/Jm4ZLt1hpNY?t=112 – “…robot 6880 USB with some nice bullying tactics there against 6463…”


#217

When playing against two good cyclers, completely shutting down a HP station is a monster advantage. Yes you CAN go to the other one, but now 2 robots are trying to share a single HP station so you are in effect slowing both robots down, not just one. I saw two offensive teams try and get around the defense, both of which were penalized. At week one, teams started just parking in front of the HP stations and slowing the whole game down while not actually doing anything.


#218

I personally don’t think that defense ruins the game. If anything, it makes the game more fun for teams who do not necessarily have the best robot, i.e. the second pick. It also makes for more strategy on the drive team, rather than just cycling over and over in a robotic manner (no pun intended). I speak from the perspective of a drive coach as well. You have to think: where will the defending bot try to block you? If they think you are going for the right side of the cargo ship, then score a hatch on the right rocket, or switch across the field and let your partners know this. Otherwise, I feel the coach just sits there and calls out the score and time, because you know 90% of the strategy going into the match. I personally believe if ONE defense bot hinders you to the point of making an entire team helpless (or presumably 2 robots if their partner is defending), that is on the alliance for not being able to work around it, not the defender.

Likewise, I do believe additional rules need to be in place. I saw many defenders recklessly ramming into bots (it was CLEAR that their intention wasn’t to stop the robot, but just to ram into it). The remedy to this could be a rule similar to the one implemented in 2016, which was that defending teams could not intentionally ram into robots repeatedly, otherwise resulting in a penalty and if done multiple times a match a yellow card. I would love to hear thoughts about this.


#219

As the defensive bot of a winning alliance, we were frustrated by the ceiling of that strategy. The floor is nice, but you’re missing several opportunities to slow the other alliance down further - especially in playoffs when the offensive partners have time to develop a rhythm moving around each other. We’d consider it when going against 3 offensive bots but otherwise find good 1v1 defense more effective.


#220

I see why you’d say that, but offense referring to scoring and defense as preventing scoring is common sports terminology. You’d probably confuse people that way (though the word ‘bullying’ specifically makes sense in context).


#221

This is actually an excellent role for the rookie boxes on wheels to play. They often don’t have mechanisms that can extend out of the frame perimeter or those mechanisms are easily constrained.


#222

Yeah. I’m not saying teams shouldn’t do it. The refs are just going to call things different at different events, so you have to watch out for damage against your robot.