Deep Space is going to be ruined by Defence

defense

#142

I’m actually thinking the opposite. I was really excited about the defense aspect, but there’s so many risks it’s almost not worth it. The potential to give them a free RP is huge, and has already happened at several events. Not to mention all the penalty’s you’d get for tipping/damaging other robots. I don’t see it as being too much of an issue with all the potential to go wrong, but who knows. I’ve been proven wrong before.
(edited for accuracy. Thanks to @EricH for pointing out my inconsistencies with the rules. Pays to do your own research and not listen to hear-say :+1:)


#143

Wait, what? There’s no Yellow Card for hitting either the Cargo Ship or the Rocket in the last 30 seconds. (There’s an RP with hitting the Rocket in the last 20s during quals, though–and one for descoring anywhere.)

Defense ramped UP into Playoffs. Defense… keeps this from being 2015.


#144

Just lived through a complete regional competition in Montreal and I can tell you defence WILL NOT ruin Destiantion: Deep Space.
In our regionals case, teams started throwing a bot into defense action in adversary alliance territory by mid-day on Friday. Thje strategy was used primarily against the stronger robots to try to destabilize and slow them down. Our team, 3986 - Express-O was one of those targeted teams.
First, we had anticipated such tactics and had designed our tank drivetrain… well… as a TANK… a M1A2 Main Battle Tank type of tank drive. Also, our driver had been trained in reactive driving. Most of the top shelf teams had prepared in a similar fashion.
Saturday morning, defensive attacks had subsided dramaticlly, because they ended up being pretty ineffective and more damaging to the defensive robot that any thing else.
By the time Finals came around, counter-defensive tactics were thrown into Alliance’s playbooks, whereby the team would designate a robot to run interference on an adversary alliance’s defense robot.
So, by the time semi-final and final matches s came around, one could find very little variation between scores resulting from games in which defence was used, or not.


#145

In Orange County, nearly every elimination alliance played AGGRESIVE DEFENSE. What I noticed is HOW CLOSE ALL ELIMINATIONS WERE. I think this is a “key design feature” of this year’s game with FINITE SCORING.

Now Defense is a two-edged sword, RED CARD eliminated an alliance in Final 2 “inside frame perimiter” so play smart

I knew defense would be way to go and IF this much defense is in Week 1…BUCKLE UP


#146

The red card was actually on the team that was being defended rather than the team doing the defending, but the first yellow card was from aggressive defense in semis, and robots in OC were taking a lot of damage from aggressive defense before the yellow card match


#147

I like how important defense is because it makes the number 1 alliance actually beatable. A large problem which many regionals especially in California have is with alliance 1 completely sweeping everybody with the 2 best scoring robots. At OCR 330 and 973 were clearly the best scorers however in SF 1-1 and 1-2 you can see that the 4th alliance was only 4 points behind in both matches due to their incredible defense essentially shutting down 973 for large portions of time. I think we will see some serious upsets due to good defense this year.


#148

As a sports fan (basketball/football) I enjoy defense…but in sports excellent defensive play comes from a lot of hard work to either become stronger, smarter with your hands/eyes/etc, faster.

In this game defense is just too easy to play. If you have a kit-bot or any basic tank drive-train, enough weight, and a driver that is awake you can ruin an entire opposing alliance’s ability to score on one side of the field.

I like smart defense, and I don’t see a lot of smart defense in this game. (At least here in Gainesville) I see a lot high speed ramming, and a lot of pinning. These things don’t require much thought, and based on how the game is laid out have a no downside.

Defense isn’t going anywhere, but I wish this game was built for a different brand of defense.


#149

You can’t tell me that any kit bot can play defense as well as 5012 at OCR. If you’re a fan of smart defense, check them out.

It takes skill to be an excellent defender in this game. Yes, a kit bot can slow some teams down. But elite level defense like 5012’s exists and it’s hella fun to watch. I have a feeling we’ll see more of it in future weeks, including on Saturday at champs.


#150

Defense at FiM Gibraltar was astounding in the semis and finals. Too bad you can barely see any of of it behind the gigantic field elements on the video.


#151

Defense or no defense, 1 day of playoffs in the books and the #1 alliance is still 100% blue banners.


#152

My bad. I messed up some of the rules. I was looking at something else. Either way… the potential to give them a free RP Is HUGE, and has already happened many times in just week one. I feel like that alone should make teams rethink. Thanks for correcting me tho. I’m gonna reread some of the defense rules.


#153

Not so sure about that. In the Montreal Regionals, although Quals had been a fairly even affair,vthe Final rounds were dominated by Alliance 1, regardless how much defense and how severe it was. The Red Alliance battled to a Final win in 6 matches, scoring between 73 and 84 points in every match.
Very often, all that defense achieved was to damage the defence bot (in one match, the bot even popped its battery loose onto the field, which caused an immediate game interruption and an eventual restart) and penalty points. Pretty kamikaze to me…


#154

Can confirm. The defense being played on our team at OCR was extremely aggressive, often involving robots driving on top of our bumpers, into our frame perimeter, causing substantial damage.


#155

Only one word comes to mind… OUCH!


#156

Boy, you must be really hating on defence now that you have been targeted in every playoff match.
Chaos indeed.

Still, your Robot is awesome and I wish you the best in Finals.


#157

We successfully thwarted some aggressive defense against us with our drivetrain. Six Neos and a two speed gearbox on a 124.5 lb robot apparently has a LOT of pushing force to drive a defender back to their own side of the field. Ha,


#158

Additionally, our alliance chose a rolling chassis as our third member. They were literally a frame and drivetrain (and ballast) with an OPR of 0.30.

Why would we do such a thing? Because after we played against them, our driver said “man, that bot really messed with us!” And with 2 other offensive bots on our alliance, we were still able to put up an average playoff score of 72 per match.

Embrace the defense! Otherwise you’re just committed to the “shootout at the OK Corral” scenario, and the higher ranked teams will almost always win.


#159

Just like how Aerial Assist is actually Aerial Assault, Deep Space is actually

Destination: Deep SMASH


#160

That sounds like what nintendo might name smash 6


#161

It was actually great to watch. Loved some of the strategies and counter strategies! And it’s only week 1!