Deep Space is going to be ruined by Defence

defense

#162

Take a look at Hatboro-Horsham Event that has just finished, #3 alliance won with a team who had a solid lv3 climb and very smart defense skills as captain, and it was great to watch.


#163

Having just gotten home from this event, never would I have guessed that a team whose primary function in every one of their matches was defence and climbing to level 3 would not only be an alliance captain, but beat the top 2 scoring robots at an event. These finals were absolutely insane, and I’m going to have to watch these matches a few times to really gather exactly what happened, and how to use this newfound knowledge in our future strategy.


#164

As week 1 was approaching, I was haunted by thoughts that it might have been the first time I over-estimated the effect of defense. My record is officially intact.


#165

Finals match 1 in Montreal was ruined by defense. They had to cancel the match because the defender lost its battery while playing defense on 3990.

Defense also ended us in quarter finals 2-2 because a robot rammed our cargoship, removing 2 game pieces while no referee was looking.


#166

That’s not ruined by defense. That’s ruined by a robot losing a battery.


#167

This is enough to not do defense? I think that any team that is doing defense needs to make sure that their coach tells the driver to get out of there with 30ish seconds left. There is no excuse for touching the opponents’ rocket at T-minus 20.


#168

I’ll put together some more coherent thoughts at some point this week. But yea D got us pretty good, knocked off a couple sensors, broke our wrist motor, we basically had to drive with manual control of most of the arm during elims. But hey I’d much rather teams target our half broken robot, let us play picks and counter D and allow 2200 who is an elite scoring robot free reign of the rest of the field.

4783 is as big of a reason we won Durham as any robot on our alliance, they were an awesome Defense bot and deserve a ton of credit for the win. There were lots of learnings from playing the game this weekend, once I get some sleep I’ll try and come up with something coherent…


#169

If anything this is a reason TO DO defense. Giving 3 robots in the regional 1 RP has very little effect on you directly. If you need to risk giving your opponents a RP against you gaining 2 RP for the win it makes sense strategically every time. In the worst case scenario you lose 3 spots and all 3 pass you with that 1 RP (unlikely because it’s only a 0.1RP gain over 10 quals matches by 3 bots). In the best case you gain 2 RP on the ENTIRE field and gain multiple spots.

TLDR: Giving 3 robots 1 RP marginally hurts every other robot’s ranking equally, but giving your robot 2 RP greatly helps your ranking.


#170

In quals I do believe so yes. However, in elims seeing as there are no RP, play defense to your hearts content.


#171

With defense being such an important part of this game it was very interesting to watch high ranking defense bots with the intention to play defense, versus a team that was picked because of thier drivetrain and has never considered defense before.


#172

Why don’t you just make sure to leave at 30ish seconds instead? I understand what you’re saying about the RP. However, why can’t you just make sure you’re not over there with 20 seconds left?

Without defense, I think it would be more or less impossible to win a hard match. You are more or less giving up in the matches that you are out-gunned since you are unwilling to go and make their scoring harder, longer, less accurate, etc.


#173

I also admired 1515’s work, they often managed to draw the entire opposing alliance into one side of the field or the other.


#174

Their defense may have been too aggressive though. One of the earlier posts that shows a picture of the damage to the 4276’s robot was caused by 1515, and happened multiple times between the same two robots. Nonetheless the ref did not call fouls so it was relatively clean defense


#175

Alliance #1 members actually did not mind… The Drive Teams were “in the groove”. Just got back in the saddle at restart and scored even higher than the initial match.

Everyone considered the restarted game a little extra practice bonus on the way to Champs…


#176

My point was that the blue alliance got a second chance to play 3v3, when it was entirely their fault their defender died on the field


#177

At Palmetto, Defense was important. But counter defense was even more important. My observation is that a truly good alliance only needs to be scoring with 2 robots. Placing the 3rd in counter defense mode was an incredible advantage. In our elim matches, we didn’t even counter defend (in a classical sense).

The opponents always chose to defend our robot. That was fine with us. We have a super drive and they only cut our cycles by about 2. So 6 pts loss. And we intentionally kept them engaged with us to keep them off of the rest of our alliance.

The other thing that I think we really found out was that the defender fouled more than they dropped our cycles (on average).

I thought most of the defending robots were pretty good. So I’m not saying anything bad about the defense.

We’ve come up with some lovely surprises to for the defense to exploit at Rocket city (our prep match for Worlds)


#178

HEhehe…week one hatboro horsham. Defense was one of the reasons the winning alliance won.


#179

Man , we won playing defense. I was pretty off the mark in my post there.


#180

Agreed… Going defensive is always a gamble and, IMHO, will remain so all the way to Champs.


#181

As RSN commentators harped in during the “Play-by-Play” livestream Saturday, it will be interesting to see how all those defensive styles and tactics will mesh at Champs in Houston and Detroit.
By comparison to “OCR -style Defense”, that of Montreal was so typically Canadian, Eh? Like, a robot would hit another and you almost heard a “Oh, sorry!” squeak by! LOL