I’m going to start this thread out early this year. Let’s discuss defense in the new game. I haven’t gone through all the rules yet, will hope to read later toady. Anyone have ideas on how to play effective defense?
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The only 1 defense bot rule will probably still work for blocking defense but the hexagon shape will make it tougher to block scoring I feel like
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I won’t make any statements regarding strategy but I saw that the pin count was reduced to 3 seconds so that will make defense harder.
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To me shadowing a bot on their side seems like it could significantly disrupt cycles if done well, especially bots who rely on being flush with the loading station. However, doing so effectively without penalties seems difficult with the potential lack of visibility due the the reefs and the cages in the middle.
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Hot take: I don’t think people are gonna focus on defense this szn. I’m not exactly an FRC veteran but the last 3 years I’ve been here have been fairly competitive. However, I’ve slowly seen an increase in emphasis on coopertition. Back in 23, we had the “5 pieces in a row” (iirc) and last year we had the “2 notes in the amp” thing. This year, it seems like FIRST wants us to cooperate more than we ever have. After all, this is a game about cleaning the sea… which is something that everyone on earth should cooperate on…
or maybe I’m just reaching 
EDIT: AND ALSO THE PIN TIME WAS LOWERED TO 3 SECONDS FROM LAST YEAR’S 5. I"M NOT CRAZY
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Sorry to ask, what do you refer with pin count?
Yeah so I’m referring to the length of time a robot is allowed to “pin” or prevent an opposing robot from moving. When one bot pins another the refs begin a count, once that count is up, a penalty is applied to the robot/alliance that is doing the pinning. In the past you could pin a bot for 5 seconds before getting a penalty, now it has been reduced to 3 seconds.
I got this information from page 69 and section G425, however I am not a ref so don’t take my interpretation as fact!
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Yes. In 2024, we had a 5-count on pins which is 5 seconds. For the first 5 seconds, there was a foul and for every extra 5 seconds it would be a tech foul. We would call out the time and count on our fingers.
In this years game it looks like that has been shortened to 3 seconds. So instead of the 5 second interval last year, it has been changed to 3 seconds. So that means that for the first 3 seconds that pass a minor penalty is assessed, and for every extra three seconds a major penalty is assessed.
If you keep pinning for a while I bet that most refs would call a G211 for excessive rule violations. I noticed a lot last year reffing events that the 5 count seemed pretty long, and the pins only started counting when the robot was unable to move. it also takes a few seconds for refs to notice and start a pin count.
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They do a great job designing these games. But I like to think about them as a competition from every angle, soccer coach here. The games seem to be designed as a sport where each team gets a ball to score on opposite sides of the court/field and no one even thinks about playing any defense. I think it needs to be more of a challenge to teams that only look to score. And a little less of a challenge for those teams that don’t have the personnel to have an effective offensive strategy.
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Excessive pinning is still defined as 15 seconds (G211 blue box)
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Shadowing is very difficult. With all the rules they have for pinning and penalty areas it seems ineffective? You may delay for a second or 2 but is it worth it?
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I don’t necessarily think it’s worth it but I think that if done well it could at least limit an excellent team to a mediocre showing. By no means am I saying that would be easy though.
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G427 is weird because it is kinda saying that if that one defender tries to get into your territory but you are right on the edge of it and you manage to touch them they get a major foul. That many points for the enemy team seems like a good deterrent to stop any robot from going on the defensive on the other side. It would be easy to accelerate to the border of your territory and effectively ward off the other robot considering only part of your bumper needs to be in your territory and even if you touch (initiate) the other robot while this occurs, they get the major foul. (unless you hit them aggressively enough to constitute damage which G423 says would be your fault)
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As of now, there doesnt seem to need to be any major defense plays. If we are dropping down the coral on our side there is no need to be traveling across the mid line. The also increased risk of making unnecessary movement with the hanging boxes will probably deter from crazy stealing plays.
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You can go through your own BARGE ZONE to get to the other side of the field. Then G427 would not be violated.
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Maybe, but the wording of the rule is " A ROBOT may not contact, directly or transitively through a SCORING ELEMENT, an opponent ROBOT partially inside the opponent’s BARGE ZONE or REEF ZONE regardless of who initiates contact. "
This makes it sound like if the opponent robot is sitting partly in their REEF ZONE and in your BARGE ZONE, they can touch your robot and give you a major foul even if you try to go through your own BARGE ZONE.
But this also casues the risk of setting your cages into movement and messing up the endgame climb
Its most likely dead. The rules and field layout are extremely unfriendly to defense.
- Giant cages in the middle of the field to dent your robot
- Pin count reduced to 3 seconds
- Only 1 defender allowed
- Protected scoring
- Minimal ability to crowd the field, since offensive bots can push you in either protected zone and draw a foul
- The one place you can defend, the source, there is 2 of them so robots can just go to the other one
There is just little for a defender to interfere with, and the wide open field with multiple loading zones and multiple protected zones makes answers against defense plentiful and easy.
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They’ll also get a Major Foul if you’re in your Barge Zone.
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You’d have to check the field drawings, but it appears that the REEF ZONE and BARGE ZONE are more than 2 robot-lengths apart. Unless they are very long skinny robots.
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