What are the main advantages and disadvantages of the NEO Vortex and Kraken X60?
Are Krakens better in general? Or are they worse? I know the Krakens don’t have the same modular gearbox system as REV, but they have much more torque.
My team has never used Krakens before, and I want to see if switching to them over NEOs could be a good idea.
Krakens are kinda just better imo. They are super reliable and have great power. If you have money, there’s no reason to not use the Kraken. MAXPlanetary works just fine with the kraken and vortex. The kraken also come in two sizes, so if packaging/weight is a concern try the x44 instead of the x60. From what i’ve heard the software is easier/nicer to work with as well.
If you have a bunch of REV motors already then don’t bother with krakens unless you are feeling limited by REVs software. No point having the get spares of both motors and software overhead. Hardware wise they are pretty similar. They differ mostly in software. The swappable shafts are a big plus on vortexes. Ive been told that ctre software is so much better than rev. We used all vortexes this year and we didn’t have any issues. We didn’t feel limited by Rev software or hardware.
this, we use them on our team, and applying PIDs and motor configs is much easier than with NEOs, at least in my experience
edit: you can still use both and be very competitive and if you already have neos then there is no point in getting krakens, its just a nice to have
@Hermes8942
Just wanted to chime in with a broader perspective as I have gotten asked this quite a bit while traveling to events the last couple years — when comparing motors like the NEO Vortex and Kraken, it’s easy to get caught up in the fine details of specs and performance. Both are high-end motors with solid capabilities, and there are use cases where one might have a slight edge over the other. Some might like the mechanicals of one vs the software features of another.
That said, for most teams, especially those aiming to move up from the middle of the rankings, swapping motor types is unlikely to be the thing that transforms your performance. The real gains usually come from things like:
if your robot already has enough power to do the job, the returns from switching motors are going to be marginal compared to improvements in these areas. It’s great to explore new hardware and stay current on what’s available—but I’d encourage teams to ask themselves where their biggest opportunities for growth actually are.
TalonFXs are a gift from god and I love them more than my family
Thats a big “If”
The thing is, if you are considering the cost, the difference between neo vortexes and krakens in cost is not big
A kraken x60 costs 199.99 I think
While a vortex is 90 ish, it does not come with a motor controller, and the spark flex is $100. So that’s about $190 for a vortex (unless you use a solo adaptor for some reason).
Point is,
If you are going to buy new motors, cost between vortex and kraken is not the reason to justify one motor over the other.
That being said, the cost of buying any of these motors themselves is not insignificant at all unfortunately
I havent heard anything more true in my whole life…
I definitely agree with the majority of posts that both are good motors. We have a robot that uses both in different places. Our drive is krakens because we had issues last year with breaking vortexes on our Mk4i swerve modules and krakens held up better in that mounting configuration. Most of our mechanisms use vortexes because we have already invested into a large number of them due to krakens having generally lower availability.
My best argument for using one over the other is that krakens have a shocking amount of torque and if you want a mechanism with less gearing but higher torque, they are a better choice. A good example is most algae claws this year. You’d need almost twice the reduction on a vortex to have to torque to hold an algae with most of the popular roller claw designs.
We love vortexes (and NEOs + spark max) for prototyping, though. Having the ability to just power the motor and control it via USB makes getting something up and running on a bench way faster.
We’ll continue to use both for quite some time as they have been able to be easily re-used from year to year.
Powerwise Krakens cook, versatility wise I like vortexs more. With the hollow shaft and several shaft adapters, you can integrate them easier in most mechanisms.
In case you didn’t know, REV addressed this problem at the end of 2024 by changing the part at the front of the Vortex from being die-cast to being CNC milled.
To be fair. These motors last. We had beta version falcons that were just fine last year.
So when you amortize the cost over 4 years, these motors aren’t at a bad price point at all. They aren’t like brushed motors that you really needed to replace every year.
We still run gen 1 and gen 2 Falcons in addition to Krakens, so I don’t really think I agree on some of the cost arguments, same as @Tom_Line. Our Krakens had 0 failures so far and there’s a couple specific features we really like that aren’t even related to performance or software superiority:
Being able to fully remove wires from the motors makes planning wire runs much easier because you can remove intermediate connections for power, you don’t need to worry about anyone accidentally cutting a CAN pigtail too short when they’re coming from the motor, and hot swapping motors becomes REALLY easy if needed somewhere - you just remove the wires from the motor and pop it out. We never had to do this, but knowing it was possible was reassuring.
I think based on quality of life improvements alone, my recommendation is the X60’s and X44’s. Make sure you buy a set of adjustable torque drivers for them - the only “failures” I saw this season was teams who 1) didn’t know there was a torque spec or 2) didn’t bother using the torque drivers and had loose connections when I checked them. We used the CTRE pre-set torque drivers and had 0 loose connection issues so far (granted, we also checked these between events but didn’t see anything loose).
IF the X44 was cheaper…I would agree. Another $5 each…get the X60. I get that the X44 is compact…and you may have a small place for it…I would just spend the extra $5.
Don’t really agree given how the weight limits are down this season. If I can use an X44 somewhere instead, makes more sense to me. There’s also the option of the CTRE Minion paired with either the FXS or a Thrifty Nova.
The controller is a much bigger difference than the specific model of motor. If you’re gonna use a Vortex, buy a FXS for it.
We didn’t have that issue this year. We used the Kraken/Falcon set up on the base…And NEOs for the subsystems. I do get your point though.
The ability to mount a Vortex directly to a 1/2" hex shaft is unique and very nice in certain situations. We used them directly on the shaft of our shooter axles last season and are using one in the same configuration on our intake assist axle this season. While there are a wide variety of replaceable shafts for the Vortex, you need to check for runout, as that is not uncommon in our experience.
We used Krakens for the first time in our swerves during the offseason and haven’t looked back. The Phoenix software lineup provides many more features than what Rev offers and the support has been nothing short of awesome. Until someone comes up with something better, we’ll for sure be using Krakens well into the future.