Differential Swerve Drive for 2023

Happy New Year!
In honor of 2023 arriving tonight, I though it would be great to introduce my latest development of a Differential Swerve.

I will keep this reveal short by using lots of pictures.
This concept has been on my mind for 2-years and I finally got motivated to do the CAD.

It is a simple single stage planetary gearing arrangement, where one motor drive the ring gear as an input and the other motor drives the sun gear as the second input.

Here is the general idea

  • All the gears are FRC Off the Shelf: one spur gear, the 1:1 miter gear set and the motor pinions parts.
    *It has a competitively small footprint in both height an length.
    *Challenge will be the 3-D printed ring gear with both internal and external teeth.
    *Twist ratio 11:1
    *Drive Ratio is 4.5:1
    *Wheel Diameter is 3.0 inches
    *Falcon motor unadjusted no load speed is 18.3 ft/sec (Falcon motor in the MK4-i is 18.0 ft/sec)

2-years ago I posted another Diff Swerve concept and got some great feedback that I would like to get that once again.

Have a Happy New Year.

image
image
image
image
image
image
image
image
image
image
image
image
image

10 Likes

This is so unique! So I have a few notes that I would like to cover based off of experience.

Firstly I have some concerns about the gear. From a completely unbacked opinion, it is my inexpert opinion that the ring gear will need to be manufactured out of aluminum.

What we found with our old modules is that not only will the teeth on the ring gear sheer, the bearing track will deform, allowing the gear to flex out of the way and be damaged. Even with aluminum, this is a risk at extremely small levels which cause excess wear, or worst-case, lead to skipping.


Fresh gear on left, used on right

Taking a look at our first module’s gears after testing, you can notice that the internal teeth aren’t there anymore. :frowning:
Although this is an extreme case (we used homemade bearings, what else was gonna happen), many of our new modules equiped with West Coast x-contact bearings have a tendency to shower aluminum dust if gears are misaligned even a smidgen.

Other remarks can be made about the rigidity of the module. For the top and bottom plates on your module, I would recommend a more solid method of connecting the two than standoffs. We found on our modules that the two plates were subject to immense torsional force that would twist them against each other, causing the gears of the differential to misalign.

This can be solved by replacing the top and bottom plates with aluminum and adding some form of 3d printed standoff with matching pocketed registers on the top and bottom plates.


Observe the black 3d printed spacer in the center of the module

Another remark I have are the geared ratio. I have calculated the turning ratio as 10:1, (MK4 is 21.4), which is a bit low, but still impressive considering the setup. Having the drive ratio 100/10 * 36 / 80 = 36 / 8 = 4.5 is so commendable, however, the ratio also seems low.



4.5:1 with 8 simulated modules on ILITE Simulator returns a 26ft sprint

As the field dimensions are 25x54, the adjusted speed of 16fps will be hard to reach on a regulation FRC field.

Differential swerve has two engineering challenges that define a decent module, gear ratios and power draw.
Looking a the simulation results, we can see that the gear ratios are not perfect, however what is more troubling is that the motors are browning-out. This was an issue that Mars Wars encountered on their differential swerve. Our team chose to counteract this obstacle by designing a 3-wheel chassis. (if we are breaking the taboo of diffy swerve, why not also do triangle?)


4.5:1 with 8 simulated modules on ILITE Simulator returns a 18ft sprint

With an increased adjusted speed of 16.4, we can see that in addition to decreasing current-limiting. We also reduce our sprint time, creating a more viable drivetrain.

Another thing to note is the modularity of our module design. This is EXTREMELY SUBJECTIVE, but our team went with modules that are easily dismountable from the chassis, as well as an easy to remove wheel, which allows us to swap both the module and the wheel in pit without any hassle.


Our modules are built modularity so we can easily remove partial parts of our module without removing the mounted module


Differential stack completely removed from module


We also have a 1/4-20 bolt that holds 3/8 hex shaft with our wheel


We created a quick-disconnect wire-harness for the module for hassle-less module swappage

Obviously this is extremely subjective because it truly depends on the level of your paranoia.

Overall, this module design has so much potential. It is actually a perfect candidate for the next big drivetrain revolution and a step to bringing differential swerve to commercial availability. The ingenuity of placing a motor in the center of the module makes the module look as if its coaxial is sort of full-circle.

6 Likes

Hopefully I’ll get time to also update 2383 differential swerve thread, but that will be definitely after college applications!

1 Like

Have you explored using a wire EDM to manufacture that ring gear out of steel?

1 Like

Yes you can cut some very precise gears with wire EDM as long as you have clear line of site.

I didn’t realize that there was a lip underneath the gear teeth. Cool design.

The last time I tried a somewhat similar design with a single bevel gear, I was warned about torque balance problems. Basically, one motor might have to work “harder” than the other to maintain it’s position or drive the module. I’m not certain if it’s an issue you face, but you should draw a torque diagram of the main spinny part to see if torques balance when both motors expert the same effort (such as when driving).

3" diameter wheel is a little unfortunate unless you can use the easily swapped REV one.

You could probably modify the twist ratio to be a little lower by using a belt there instead of a gear. This would also make it easier to manufacture that ring gear, as 3dp pulleys are strong.

You could move to 10DP to make the inner teeth on the ring gear bigger.

I think the structural parts of your module are pretty good. Just make sure to counterbore the plates for the standoffs, use big standoffs or the big 3dp spacer the above person mentioned, and definitely use a standard thin section bearing or 6814/6816/6818 bearing.

Finally if you use a 2:1 or 3:1 bevel ratio, which is I understand is more expensive, you could slow the module down and make it NEO compatible. Alternatively, add another gear stage to the center motor; this also lets you move it off-center and potentially save some footprint. 18fps seems fine for a diffy swerve given the higher drive power available. I would not be concerned with too much power draw, as any motor on a regular swerve will suffer from the same limitations. Dual motors increases efficiency slightly and doubles your 40A breaker, letting you put more power on the ground for the same electrical power input per motor.

1 Like

Wow what a great response!
I appreciate the depth of communication and sharing of your experiences. There are so many good points that I will try to break it down by subject.
For reference sake I dub this new design, “Differential Swerve Drive 2023” or (DSD2023)
Thanks again for the high level of detail.
Anton

=======================
Polymer main ring gear deflection and wear.
Excessive Deflection is a good point. The ring deflects severely under load.
Additional structure already incorporated into the DSD2023 provides more rigidity.
Maybe not be stiff enough, so looking at changing to aluminum will a huge difference.

=======================
Dual Ring Gear bearing support.
Home made bearing wear out quickly in competition.
DSD2023 has 4x Roller-Track Bearings riding in a single groove on the ring gear
A Four-Point 3.5x4.0x0.25 X-Bearing support would be an option and would reduce part count and improve overall stability.

========================
Motor Pinion Mesh Integrity.
Deflection is a potential issue.
Small pinions are extra sensitive to center-distance changes (Loss of Contact Ratio).
Can use “Idler Gears” as radial support. Basically another gear on its own bearing that meshes with motor pinion on the opposite side of the primary mesh.
Center Distance Tolerance stack-up should be kept to a minimum (Better housing structure).

========================
Gear ratio selection
Twist Ratio Calculation: The ratio of 11:1 was based on standard formulas for a “Planetary” drive with ring gear held fixed. See formulas.
Drive ratio too low: You have calculated the drive ratio spot on at 4.5:1.
What are you suggesting the ratio be changed to?
More drive “Ratio” can be added without impacting the twist ratio gearing. Option 1: Smaller Wheel, Option 2: Change the bevel gear ratio from 1:1

=========================
Housing/Structural Deflection
I posted an integrated 3-D printed hosuing and yoke structure 2-years ago that I can leverage once all other issues have been resolved.
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/5/457d4d12210603811eb784b1306877f5aa636d68.jpeg

1 Like

Thanks for the quick feedback.

Good point on the imbalance caused by the single bevel creating a twist bias. I had a thought that this could be managed by moving the wheel off center.

However, I think that the torque going to each motor will be the same regardless of where the torque is coming from, be it twist torque or driving torque.

By keeping the twist ratio as high as possible, the torque created by the twist imbalance will be a smaller percentage of the total available motor torque. That is the primary reason to keep the twist ratio as high as possible.

Replacing the wheel is accomplished by sliding out the axle pin allowing the wheel/bevel-gear/needle-bearing assembly to drop right out of the bottom.

This topic was automatically closed 365 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.