I know there is a seperate thread within the original thread, but to Raul’s concern - I am also very worried that this could really get out of hand. In principle, it might make sense to allow whistleblowing, but I hope that people running the event will use some consideration when in comes down to reviewing/re-inspecting a team. I can see that every team at any event could probably question something about every team - I am very concerned with the lack of good sportsmanship and gracious professionalism. If FIRST wants to allow a red flag questioning a team on the grounds of a rule - I don’t think it should be done anonomously. If you are concerned - then what do you have to hide? I also think that if a team falsely accuses another team - the team has a right to know whom it was. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the team that is questioned ends up picking the team that challenges them? Or better yet, a team picks the other without knowing it was that team that questioned their integrity? Would seem like it would be poetic justice for that team to decline the offer - after all why would you want to be on the same team that you accused of cheating? Seems to me this is just another opportunity for bad sportsmanship to rear its ugly head. Complicated rules just mean 1000 different interpretations of them - probably why this thread has so many opinions as to what to do. The simplest games are those with the fewest rules.
changing gear ratios is a major thing, making spare parts consists of creating things that are already existant on the robot…that is making COPIES of already existant parts… so the gear change does violate the rules…however the fabrication of replacement lighter parts is not a major design change, the new parts happen to be lighter…which is not a violation because it does not change the essential function of the robot…this is just how we have interperated the rules…yours is up to you.
to the off topic question…there is allowment for whistle blowing here…but there were a few robots last year that i saw with major violations that we tried to help to get them within the rules. But if a team is significantly benifiting by a rule violation they should be looked at, but if not leave them alone. also, always remember safety…if the violation was able to escape detection at inspection, but still presents a safety risk, bring it up with the team first…dont rain on someone parade, and don’t wait til the finals to bring it up…that is mean. Lets all be gracious professionals here.
In response to Jmrc.
Identical “Spare Parts” may be produced at any time. “Spare Parts” may be fabricated at the competitions. They must be “identical spare parts” and not “new”, “additional” or “alternate parts”. FIRST relies on the spirit of “Gracious Professionalism” to enforce this restriction. “Spare Parts” need not be accounted in your budget.
My interpretation of the above rule is that if it is a spare part but not identical (eg. lighter) it must be built at the competition.
If a team had shipped a 131 lb. robot I think it would be outside the intention of the “identical spares” rule to repalce several parts on your robot with lighter “identical spares” to make weight. (assuming that these lighter “identical spares” were not made during the six week build period)
Thank you for all of your input. We will not walk any fine line and we’ll stick to our initial thoughts of:
“Currently, our thoughts are to bring the off-the-shelf sprockets/gears to the regional and modify them (lighten them & broach keyways) in the pits.”
Robonaut Ricky can run a 4.2 forty and we’ve been working with him to carry the gears in his teeth so he maintain his speed. So, if you’re trying to get parts to the shop in a hurry on Thursday at the Lone Star Regional, say HI to Ricky … he’ll be at the head of the line.
Thanks again,
Lucien
In my opinion, these rules are characteristic of the few problems of FIRST. In order to figure out what they mean, you usually have to assign a team of approx. 3 students to memorize the rule-book and obtain/learn all new updates as the year progresses. If your team has a problem, it then becomes the responsibility of this compliance team to get an answer. In this case, what caught my eye was that “NO “new” parts can be manufactured by the team after 5:00 of the ship date”. To me, this basically means that you can’t decide an idea was bad at 5:05 and begin working on a new way to fix it so that when you get to your first regional, you can simply bolt it on. Many people agree with me on this, however, I also believe something few people do. I interpret “NO “new” parts can be manufactured by the team after 5:00 of the ship date” to mean NO NEW PARTS. Think for a moment about all the teams at any regional you have been to that are frantically working in the pits, not doing repairs, but adding new components or even rebuilding their robot from the ground up. The tethers of last year’s game come to mind. Many people would point out that since there is a FIRST machine shop at almost (probably) all regionals it is legal to make new parts. To them I simply say that the machine shop’s original intent was to replace broken parts. Well, I imagine this will cause quite a stir, so I’ll stop now.
*Originally posted by Kojib *
**In this case, what caught my eye was that “NO “new” parts can be manufactured by the team after 5:00 of the ship date”. To me, this basically means that you can’t decide an idea was bad at 5:05 and begin working on a new way to fix it so that when you get to your first regional, you can simply bolt it on. Many people agree with me on this, however, I also believe something few people do. I interpret “NO “new” parts can be manufactured by the team after 5:00 of the ship date” to mean NO NEW PARTS. **
When the game first came out, this rule was fuzzy. Then, people began to ask the question about what “spare parts” or “new parts” can be made after the ship date. This question was answered on the FIRST official forums with the answer of “only exact duplicate parts may be made”.
But… then, Update #20 came out and it all changed.
Read pages 8-9, items 1, 2, 3, & 4. FIRST now says the new mechanisms may be made during the competition and after a Regional competition until the Wednesday following the competition. This opened the door for many modifications.
Andy B.
If I remember, the “until wednesday” rule is sort of how it was last year. You could build parts for 4 days, then too, I think. It’s still not as open as 2001, though. I remember teams were allowed to take their robot home until Wednesday that year.