Double Climb Illegal?

Hello CD!

Turns out on the 25th, FIRST released a mass team update, and it appears that double climbing is illegal. This will certainly affect a lot of teams, including some such as 3360, Hyperion.

Is this true? What are your thoughts and interpretations? I do not think it is right that FIRST released a large, game-changing rule during the build season. I am unsure if I am interpreting this correctly, but if I am, I am certainly frustrated and concerned.

Here is a picture straight from the mass team update found here.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I believe this is merely stating what does and does not qualify as a major mechanism in terms of inspection. If a mechanism is used for scoring without the help of another robot it is considered a major mechanism. It doesn’t say anything about not being able to score with the help of another robot

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Could you explain how you came to this conclusion based on the highlighted text below?

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This ruling does not explicitly outlaw double climbing. This update only clarifies what was already known for this season that teams could not give each other fully functioning mechanisms for climbing such as what was done in 2017.

Teams like 2630 Thunderbolts have developed a buddy climb using forks that deploy under the robot which does not violate this rule since the robot being lifted is unmodified.

Other teams like 1678 and 3360’s buddy climbs do require modifying the robot being assisted using a piece of Velcro or a hook respectively but these minor alterations being considered major mechanisms is debatable.

Considering that the hook or Velcro on the assisted robot do not accomplish the end game task on their own and require a second robot, I’m of the opinion that they do not violate this rule but I’m not an inspector.

Speaking more to Hyperion directly I believe they said that if their hooks were deemed to be in violation they would pass out instructions for teams to build their own and get around the rule that way. I’d assume 1678 would do something similar by handing out free Velcro.

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This was updated to this version on January 10th in Team Update 2, not on the 25th.

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Hyperion’s Recon, fantastic robot by the way, features a triple climb mechanism with hooks that mount to other robots to enable this.

No, the mass update was released/updated on the 25th according to the first inspires website.

Let me be more direct: I can’t possibly figure out how you are interpreting this text to make buddy climbs illegal. I don’t know if anyone else can, either, otherwise it would have been hotly debated days / weeks ago.

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The latest team update was released on February 25th, that much is true. That would be Team Update 15 though, not Team Update 2 where this was changed.

Every time an individual update is released they update the “Combined” doc, which is why that says updated 02/25.

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I agree with this. My interpretation of that rule update is the exact opposite, allowing buddy climbs instead of banning them.

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Ok, after rereading it a few times, I think I misunderstood. My apologies.

You’re not the first one to get confused, I got confirmation from various RIs and they see absolutely nothing potentially illegal with it

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No need; a big part of this forum is to try to get as many surprises out of the way before competition. Now that I look at the rule, I can’t help but wonder how many teams took your interpretation back when it came out and decided to cancel their buddy climb, when the rule was actually intended to make buddy climbs easier.

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