Drill Motor Mounts

When running our robot for about 45 minutes with little break in between (i know this isn’t a good idea) we noticed the odd smell of melting plastic. Upon further inspection we realized that the drill motor mounts first had provided in the kits had begun to melt due to the heat generated by the drills…
has anyone else experienced anything like this? I remeber the drill motors from last year produced alot of heat but how do last years compare to this years?

we are planning on creating some heat sinks to put on the motors to help with this issue…
can anyone else relate?

If your motors survive to the point where you get to competition, I would recommend that you treat them gently. Do not drive at low speeds and push things for long, as these motors use a lot of current near stall speed and the internal fans do not move much air, either. You only have a 2 minute+ match, so in practice, keep it about the same and check the temperature of your motors at similar intervals. If they get hot, back off or check for problems (friction, misalignment, wrong gearing…).

Last year, we never had a motor failure but we didn’t go looking for trouble, either. We also had really low gearing which helped in pulling/pushing things.

we plan on keeping compressed gas of some sort like canned CO2 duster on hand to freeze the motors before matches just to be safe… we have done this in the past without any problems.

We hooked up one of those nifty large muffin fans. Whenever the motors have any current being applied to them, the fan will turn on. Im not sure how much good this will do, but its gotta be better than nothing.

Cory

I would reccomend having that fan run continusouly, the reasoning behind this is that the heat that is generated by the motors doesent go away when the motors stop, in fact half of the heat is just penetrating the casing of the motor at that point, also if your close enough to the current limit of the 120a breaker that the fan will put you over… you may want to change some things around.

just my $.02

Is there some kind of CAD drawing for those mounts so we can know all the dimensions and get them CNC-ed?

WPI used a forced-air cooling system on the drill motors in 2001. It works extremely well; rarely do the motors even get warm.

*Originally posted by sanddrag *
**Is there some kind of CAD drawing for those mounts so we can know all the dimensions and get them CNC-ed? **

Not sure about CAD drawings, but you can buy new ones from the MMH order form for $17 each.

*Originally posted by rbayer *
**Not sure about CAD drawings, but you can buy new ones from the MMH order form for $17 each. **

But we want aluminum ones:cool:

At the SCRRF regionals our motors overheated after 3 matches (we built heat syncs)

Muffin fans do work well, if run continuosly, we used them on our 2001 robot.

liquid cooling anyone?

*Originally posted by oneangrydwarf *
**When running our robot for about 45 minutes with little break in between (i know this isn’t a good idea) we noticed the odd smell of melting plastic. **

Sounds like you have a pretty good design. If the motors lasted for 45 minutes of near continuous duty without damage to motor or mount, I think you are doing very well. I would recommend in the future (to all teams actually) that you periodically check the motor temp. A handhled fan, a heatshrink gun on “cool”, or some freeze spray ( I am not fond of this one, if wrongly applied, I believe it washes lubricant out of the end bearings and of course causes condensation to form on the cold metal) applied every 10 minutes during practice would be a good idea. We watch for heating during extended practice, at least I hope they are doing it this year.
To the other teams that are heating after just a few minutes, check you mech design and current draw on the motors. As has been discussed in these forums before, it essential to get the motors near to design speeds for the internal fans to work properly and place the motor in an efficient area of the power curve.

the major problem with the “cool in a can” solution is that if applied to a hot motor, that stuff can actually cause your permanent magnets to crack (IE render your motors useless)…

On the other hand it does wonders (in my opinion) when properly applied to room temp motors before a match.

But for optimum results i’d say forced air combined with a heatsink is the way to go.

yah we were worried about the cracking of the motors if we cooled them so fast… so when we did notice the plastic getting hot after long periods of driving we would just stop, during driver tryouts we just put the robot outside in the fridgid indiana winter air for about 30 mins and that caused it to cool to the point it wasn’t melting but it didn’t freeze it instantly.

A word of caution to teams using compressed gases in cans: Read the labels, one can we were using contained ether and almost made us pass out when we sprayed it on the motors with other people in close proximity to the robot. Some of them could actualy be toxic if sprayed out in their liquid form and alot of them have warnings about skin contact and ingestion… I have a scar on my arm to prove this stuff WILL cause frostbite, and yes it does hurt alot of if you spray it on yourself for anything longer then a few seconds.

Did that can have flammability warnings on it? Ether is flammable!

*Originally posted by Al Skierkiewicz *
**Did that can have flammability warnings on it? Ether is flammable! **

Not to mention unstable. When I was in High School (back when the dinosaurs were roaming) one of our science teachers was moving to a different room. While he was cleaning out stuff a previous teacher left, he came upon a bottle of ether. Nobody knew how long it had been there, but the dust was pretty thick. They evacuated the building and brought in the bomb squad to remove it (kinda messed up the old lesson plan that day;) ). Apparently ether becomes more unstable with age or at least that’s what they told us back then.

A bunch of us watched, (who said high school kids were smart?) but nothing exciting happened, probably just as well.

it wasn’t ether but it contained ether…
smelled just like ether and was some sort of compound containing ether…

i didn’t catch any warnings about flamability but i do know it had alot about ingestion and skin contact as well as eye contact.

about those motor mounts…well as far as heat dissipation goes, they SUCK. Plastic is a great thermal insulator…so the motors get nice and toasty after continuous operation.

A funny story about that…the monday before shipping (about 20 mins before we learned about the extension) we started testing out our robot…we ran it for about 3 batteries(dumb yes). In the past we have had custom over engineered mounts, made of about a zillion pieces…but weighing very little. Since these motor mounts were alum, we never had heat problems. For some odd reason no one thought about heat on monday, i guess we figured since there was no problem in the past there wouldn’t be one in the future, well needless to say, we smoked not only the mounts but the WHOLE MOTOR FAN HOUSING, which entailed me and one of the drivers to run to the compressed air hoses and liberally spray down the entire motor and housing.
After this little incident, we designed and cut out precision heat sinks on the wire EDM, these being made of alum. They function well as heat sinks and heat pipes to the whole frame of our robot. The cannot keep up with the heat up of the robot, but when it is not moving it cools down VERY QUICKLY. An added bonus is that i can now change the drill motors out by turning a single cap screw, instead of four bolts. Also there is no motor shifting…for those of you who can see your motors when you change directions you notice that the motors spin as much as a 1/4 inch in the mountings.

*Originally posted by Jrmc *
**After this little incident, we designed and cut out precision heat sinks on the wire EDM, these being made of alum. They function well as heat sinks and heat pipes to the whole frame of our robot. The cannot keep up with the heat up of the robot, but when it is not moving it cools down VERY QUICKLY. An added bonus is that i can now change the drill motors out by turning a single cap screw, instead of four bolts. **

I don’t really understand. Do you have a picture of what you did?

unfortunatly no, most of us were too busy to take pictures (ours is the pink robot) we took a few, but no one thought about taking any pictures of actual components. Basically, it looks like a block of extruded alum, it has gear like teeth around the outside, and a hole the size of a drill motor with a cap screw on the slit on the top of the hole. you tighten the screw to secure the motor