My team is starting to buy some tools for this years comp. and i realized as i went through the Harbor Frieght cataloge, i says to myself “English or Metric” seeing how first is an international thing now and all.
can someone clear this up for me?
appreciate it
Shrey
Clear what up?
English is like feet and inches…
Metric is meters.
I’m guessing the rulebook has the dimensions and limits in both metric and English but I’m not positive.
At last season’s (2002) kickoff, it was clearly stated that FIRST was going metric “inch by inch”… Take it as you will…
Haha…Man…those FIRST people have a sense of humour 
Much to the dismay of myself and the rest of our pit crew, our 'bot last year was about 1/2 metric and the other 1/2 standard. It’s hard enough to find the right size allen wrench when you only have to look through 1 set! Anyway, we swore we would never again mix the two.
As a side note, I believe some part of the drill motor assembly is metric-only (the screws that hold the gearbox in place?), but I don’t really remember.
It really doesn’t matter. The only thing that is important is to pick one, and then make sure EVERYONE ON THE TEAM KNOWS WHICH ONE YOU ARE USING.
-dave
(lesson learned from the 1998 Mars Climate Orbiter)
English all the way when working with torque and the such. I know what a newton is now in physics but it makes no sense:
Man: How much pushing force does your robot force have?
Me: 150 newtons
Man: Huh??
Ooo yeah never mix up metric and english hex key sets. We did that with some structual aluminum (is that the right name?) and ended up striping half of the screws on our robot.
*Originally posted by rbayer *
**Much to the dismay of myself and the rest of our pit crew, our 'bot last year was about 1/2 metric and the other 1/2 standard. It’s hard enough to find the right size allen wrench when you only have to look through 1 set! Anyway, we swore we would never again mix the two.
**
Are you sponsored by NASA? 
we didn’t have a prob using metric and standard on our bot, it was kinda fun searching for the right tool with only 10 secs b4 u were announced. luckily i memorized all sizes and what tool was used for each. note to self*** do not mix metric and standard tools in box****
1st: Adjustable wrenches are the key to success.
As for allen keys and what not, my bot was definately the worst. There was prolly a combo of random Imperial (“standard”) and Metric nuts, bolts, and really anything else.
I would suggest to just choose a unit that you have readily available in your teams shop, and what your suppliers use. Any measurements from FIRST can easily be converted to what you’re using.
Just make sure that everything on your robot is consistent.
“Would you like some more ale chap with that steak and kindy pie?”
See, I can be English…
someone wispers measurements
Oh, hehehe.
English all the way! 150 feet sounds better than 45 meters.
This year we are moving towards “standardization” for our nuts and bolts. After hearing a speech from Joe Johnson about it at a recent DELPHI team forum we thought it would be a good idea to follow along in team 47’s footsteps for this idea. So starting this year we will use metric fasteners and english lenghts (etc.)
*Originally posted by JosephM *
**English all the way! 150 feet sounds better than 45 meters. **
I’d say metric is an easier system. Everything is base 10.
10 millimeters in a centimeter, 10 centimeters in a decimeter, 10 decimeters in a meter…1000 meters in a kilometer.
English…12 inches per foot. 3 feet per yard. 2000 yards per mile. The numbers aren’t as nice.
Metric might be easier to use and make more sense, but come on. Metric is just a pain in the rear to work with when your using a fifty year old world war II surplus shop which is ALL english. And I’m a stubborn American who’s goin 140? on the highway I wish.
Also out of the three bots i’ve built. Two were all english and one was a mixture. In those three years one was ranked 14th in Epcot and one placed second in New York. Guess which ones were the english bots. Coincidence, I think not.
And the end all to the Argument
“The metric system is the tool of the devil, my car gets forty rods to the hogs head and thats the way i likes it.”
*Originally posted by Clark Gilbert *
**This year we are moving towards “standardization” for our nuts and bolts. After hearing a speech from Joe Johnson about it at a recent DELPHI team forum we thought it would be a good idea to follow along in team 47’s footsteps for this idea. So starting this year we will use metric fasteners and english lenghts (etc.) **
Yep… here is our plan:
Use available stock sizes (almost all english sizes), like using 1" x 1" x 1/8" aluminum angle, etc.
But… we are only using M5 & M3 screws. This means that we only have two nut sizes, only two washer sizes, only 4 allen wrenches, only 2 open ended (or socket) wrenches, and two tap sizes. We wanted to go with only one screw size, but some of the small stuff (gearboxes, etc.) really warrants a smaller screw.
We will only make an exception to this 2 screw rule if the situation requires it… and there is no other option.
You should have seen our fastener cabinet before we started this standardization rule… it was ridiculus. We had every English screw size available… it took days to re-organize the darn thing.
Andy B.
We usually use English measurements and fasteners. We’ve had a lot of variations in the past, but last year we actually cut down to just two sizes of screws and two sizes of Allen bolts. It made it a lot easier to keep track of what was what. The two sizes of each were visually different, so everyone knew which wrench to use.
As was said before, adjustable wrenches become your friends, fast. As do leathermans. I know it’s wrong to tighten a nut with plyers, but it’s a hell of a lot faster then trying to find another wrench. Then locktite the whole silly thing so you never have to worry about it again. If it breakes, it stays broke, but you don’t have to dig out you’re tools!
Has anyone had any expeience with an adjustable socket head? I remember seeing ads for one, were the inside of the head was filled with spring loaded pins. I always wondered if they were worth the price.
-Andy A.
edit: spelling and other silly things
*Originally posted by Andy A. *
Has anyone had any expeience with an adjustable socket head? I remember seeing ads for one, were the inside of the head was filled with spring loaded pins. I always wondered if they were worth the price.
/me is not entirely sure.
My stepdad would say definitely no, and I am strongly inclined to agree with him, however, it would be soooo nice if that worked. I am pretty sure they won’t take the torque they are claiming (200+ lb-ft) but I doubt anything on the robot is getting tightened near that tight. Head bolts the performance-built 351W my stepdad has don’t get tightened that tight
*Originally posted by Andy A. *
**
Has anyone had any expeience with an adjustable socket head? I remember seeing ads for one, were the inside of the head was filled with spring loaded pins. I always wondered if they were worth the price.
**
They round off the nut head. :eek:
Not a good thing to have happen to a nut head.
Wetzel
narfI personally like english better, just because I find it easier to deal with. Yeah, I know metric is based off of 10, but I like english ::shrugs:: I never used metric until I got into FIRST.
My suggestion? Get both. Our toolbox consists of both, just in case we need them. Like this year, we used Bosch as our frame (which is metric) and everything else was english. Yikes.
- Katie