Ethics

Other Chit-Chat
1

I’m in a class where we are given a take home quiz. We are told to work on it on our own and sign it. People still ask for help regardless of this rule. So, here is the question: Would you help them or not? If your grade was in trouble, would you ask for help? If you were getting an F, but could turn it to an A by questionable means would you?

I ask, because I know my answer. I know that FIRST is seen as being full of GP and I wonder if many of you take GP into something like this. I am keeping the poll anonymous to open it to honesty.

2

What an intereresting scenario.
As much as I would like to say some homework taken home is free reign & thus open to help by others, if this “no outside help” rule was instituted in this particular assignment, then I would tend to just go with the rule.

You get to ask for help with every other homework assignment, whereas this assignment is testing YOU as an individual. Just go with it.

On another related (& potentially conflicting) note, I don’t see how this is helping you.
Is this testing your ability to quiz independently?
If so, then why is it a take-home quiz?
I would expect the rule could & would be more monitored if it was an in-class quiz where the teacher was present & able to monitor the rule set in place about no external help.

Say I followed the rules perfectly, & still had trouble with the assignment & bombed the quiz*, & then talked to a classmate who mentioned they got help with it & aced the quiz.
Wouldn’t I feel resentment towards that other student?
Would I advise the teacher of this peer’s breaking of the rules?
Would I think that was a bad rule since it can’t be enforced?

I don’t agree with, nor see the point of your teacher’s thought process behind this rule to be honest.
Why make rules they can’t enforce & would have the potential to just turn one student on another if it was a critical quiz?
Why ask for that kind of trouble as a teacher?
Seriously.

*That has happened to me before btw. I had a serious discussion with the teacher afterwards, & they said nothing (ie: the rule they set in place) would change for the future. I dislike stubborn teachers.

3

Before I read the post, I was leaning towards Helping a friend, since in general relationships are important to humans.

With the premise of a take-home test (or quiz, or whatever), though, the answer changes. Follow The Rules.

Getting a good grade is only cheating yourself (aside from also just plain cheating) if not by your mastery of the topic. I once had the answers version of a grade school math book, and used it daily to ‘simplify’ doing the homework. I didn’t learn the math, and that ended up hurting me academically for a few years afterward.

If you want to provide the most help to a real friend, let them do it themselves. That way, they either really learn the material (which will help them) or they will get a bad grade (which will inform the teacher that the student needs help). If you don’t care about the person and wish them evil (I hope not :ahh: ) then by all means give them the answers - that will hurt them more than almost anything else you can do.

4

The most help I would give would be where to look for the method of answering the question. That’s actually more helpful than giving the answer (teaches looking for the source, resource use, etc., plus the doing the problem).

Of course, that would only be if this was an open-book assignment. If it’s straight memory, then it’s sorry, buddy, but I’d be more of a friend if I didn’t help you [insert word for not doing the work here].

As for reporting rule-breakers, I’d do that if and only if I had sure proof. If it’s rumors, sketchy stories, suspicion, I wouldn’t.

Me personally, I want to know how I’m doing, not how the dude next to me is doing.

5

I took help to mean just that, help. Not spit out answers for the person, but help them to actually learn the material, tutor them on the quiz. That is why I selected that above anything else.

6

Hmmm,

Well, to answer one of your questions, I don’t see the words “gracious” or “professional” being particularly pertinent in this context.

I do see some more important/fundamental values than graciousness or professionalism in play. In the context you described, I say to not break the rules.

Blake

7

To give you more info. It is an open book quiz. Basically the in class test resulted in a below 50% average. Now, to make up for it, you can do this take home quiz to get up to a third of your points back. I definitely agree that the teacher is a bit of a jerk, but overall he has been mostly fair. It seems to me that I might be the only one keeping straight. Some of my friends have joked about it, but I always tell them “Stick to the Code”. I just wanted to see how people on here would react to this situation. I could definitely see valid arguments being made for any of the three choices. That is why I specifically worded them so that none have a negative insinuation.

8

If someone had a question on homework about something they didn’t understand, I would help them, but I wouldn’t just give them the answer, especially on an open book quiz.

9

Yeah… I’d tell them approximately where to look and leave it at that. Open book != open friend!

10

The actual situation adds a level of complexity to the situation, and honestly to give a fair assessment, more information is needed.

You say the average on the test was below 50%. I assume this course is a first- or second-year class, most likely a “weed-out” course. It is not uncommon for tests to be made such that the average would be a 50% - that way the professor gets a nice bell curve out of the results. I’m not saying I agree with this strategy, it’s just the way it is. This strategy only works if the class is graded on a curve - is it? If it is graded on a curve, then I’d say help in any fashion beyond the textbook is more harmful. This would be in essence ‘wrecking the curve’ and would result in an artificially inflated average which further skews the data.
Example of harmfulness: Clair scores a 90% on the test; Cliff, Theo, Vanessa, Denise, and Rudy all score 85%. Secure in the knowledge that she has an A, Clair decides not to do the take-home test, choosing to focus on another class in which she’s struggling. Cliff and his friends, however, choose to work together and complete the take-home perfectly, earning themselves 5 percentage points (a third of what they’d missed). This makes them all at 90%, artificially raising the curve and potentially bringing Clair’s grade down to a B.

If, on the other hand, the professor administered a test which was more difficult than he intended, the take-home quiz would be bonus points and would benefit those who take the class seriously and are willing to do some extra work, without further penalizing those who choose not to do so (they get the grade they got).

At any rate, the instructions were given - no help other than book or notes. I’d stick to the professor’s instructions, and understand he’s not only teaching the subject, but also giving the class a life lesson in ethical behavior, and trusting the students to act in what we FIRSTers would call “graciously professional” behavior.

Just because you don’t get caught, doesn’t make it right.

Do it by yourself. Even if your grade suffers, it’s early in the school year, you’ve got plenty of opportunities to get your grade to where it should be, and you’re secure in the knowledge that you made the right decision - that’s more important than any grade.

11

I appreciate all the responses. I know what I believe to be the right thing. I haven’t helped a single person. I’ve encouraged others to do the same. That being said, some are still cheating. Actually more then some, but that’s not the point. I understand the reasoning the teacher is doing this, to give everyone a chance of passing…However to me this seems like a communist approach. If you do well on the test, you pass. If you don’t do well, you still pass.

My note to high school seniors: Set up a code early and stick to it. If you feel cheating is ok, thats fine. Go ahead, you probably won’t regret it later. If you feel like cheating is wrong, you will regret it. No matter the circumstance, you will. This, as with everything, is a personal decision…where do you place importance? Think about it. Personally, I’d rather settle for an honest F then a shady A. Good luck to all, for sticking with your own code.

12

I hate open book take home tests.

13

I probably would ask for help, if this ever applied to me, partly because I don’t consider this to reallt be cheating. If we failed that badly, that means we (as a class) just plain didn’t understand the material, and in alot of advanced courses, material builds upon what you’ve already learned. I wouldn’t give people answers, but I would show them how to do a certain type of problem, or where to find the answer in the book if it was obscure. This is disregarding all of the curve stuff that has been mentioned because in high school, curves and wrecking them and “weed out courses” don’t really apply. I’m a person who learns from asking questions, and if I’ve already failed a test, that clearly means I need more than a book to help me. In high school, its different than college, but still is kinda similar. If you’re having trouble with a subject, teachers expect you to get help. About the moral side of it, most teachers kinda know that kids will ask for help, especially if its already open book, because you already have the answers. Its not exactly the same as having answers on your hand or in your pocket and using them during class on a big exam. I don’t cheat, and have never done it or never will do it, but I don’t consider this cheating. Feel free to disagree with me, because I know that many have posted pretty much the opposite.

14

As a teacher of high school seniors, if I gave my students a directive to use their book and notes only, that what I would expect them to do. If i found out otherwise, I would throw the book at them (at my school that would be a zero on the test and an administrative referral). My advise to a student who was having trouble would be to ask the teacher for help! I wouldn’t give you the answers, but i would make sure you knew where to look to get what you needed.

Don’t get upset if the first test in a class is “hard.” In Physics, the first test is the worst for any class I have historically taught. To quote a famous wise man, “You must unlearn what you have learned.”

15

As I’ve said, everyone should have their own code. I feel that if you think it is ok, fine. It’s not my place to turn anyone in. Afterall, the paper has a place to sign that I did it on my own. It never says anything about ensuring that others follow it. See what I mean? Personally, I’ve come to an understanding with others. They know I won’t help, so they don’t ask. I know they will get help, so I don’t lecture.

16

NO offense to anyone but, are you being completely honest here? For a moment, disregard what people would think of you if you helped your friend or you asked your friend for answers. Disregard what we think of you (as if that actually mattered) and post up what’s really important to you.

My honest answer: my grade. Don’t care much for what comments I get.

(In no way should this ever be interpreted to reflect the nature and attitude of my team. Ever.)

17

A single grade will be forgotten in a few years.
A black mark on your transcript for an Honors Violation will stay there forever.

18

Thank you for your honesty. You have voiced what I see as the worst trait of this young generation: It’s all about me and what I need. They seem to have the, " rules are for those who get caught" attitude. I would counter with “character is what you do when no one else is looking.”

19

Thank you for your honesty. You have voiced what I see as the worst trait of this young generation: It’s all about me and what I need. They seem to have the, " rules are for those who get caught" attitude. I would counter with “character is what you do when no one else is looking.”[/quote]

I wouldn’t be so tough on a whole generation. Ours (the baby boomers, at least for me) is no shining example either.

I voted for “keep the rules”, the “correct” answer. That doesn’t always mean I always observe the rules.

20

In most cases, I would let my peers fend for themselves since they have plenty of resources to use and it isn’t my right to undermine the curriculum the teacher has put in place.

HOWEVER, there would occasionally be circumstances in which I would go against this, such as if the teacher was slightly biased against some of my classmates who had trouble with the subject, or they hadn’t been able to get adequate help (perhaps due to illness, but if it was due to their own laziness, the reason is now null). In that case, I would never give them actual answers, but perhaps the first step of the process, a clue along the way, where to look, or an example of a similar problem: this would teach them the reasoning behind what they’re trying to figure out, teach them skills to figure similar material out in the future, and would not violate the spirit of the assignment: they’re supposed to do it on their own without help, and all I’ve done is shown them similar situations, not helped with the current one.