Event Live Stream Ideas

FIRST General Forum
#16

Very odd, one service I was a beta tester for (The now closed synchtube.com) had no issue embedding a Livestream stream of any type. We tested this extensively with free and verified channels with 1000+ users.

After that site closed the owner linked me to this as an alternative. I have been meaning to play with it since it’s opensource, but looking at the test site they have, it handles livestream the same way.
Both sites are/were built off Javascript and Node.js, hopefully they can be some help.

#17

So, I think what I would like to see from a Stream would be for just the wide angle live shot showing full field of the match while the match is live. Use the announcer commentary to help cover what is going on. Once the match is complete, it typically takes a couple of minutes to ensure the score is ready during which you could replay the whole match showing some detail shots and having a second announcer commenting on the specifics shown on the screen. This would act like an instant replay but for the whole match. From a cadence perspective, it would be 4:30 to 4:40 of robot action per match cycle. For a 6 minute turn, this would give a little over 1 minute for score and intros. For a 7 minute cycle, you would have a little over 2 minutes.

One of my pet peeves of the streams are where the screen does not match the announcing. It would be like hearing about a touchdown being scored with the screen focusing on watching the quarterback after the pass is thrown.

#18

How long ago did you work with Livestream? Now that you mention it, I think you used to be able to embed any stream. The change might have happened when they switched to the “New Livestream” platform. I know for a fact that there’s no way to embed free channels now. It may have been possible in the past, but I’ve tried many ways to do it now and it’s just not possible.

EDIT: Look at the $333/month plan. https://new.livestream.com/plans#plan_comparison_table

#19

Oh, I assumed we were talking about the ‘old’ livestream streams. Last time I checked you couldn’t embed the ‘new’ channels.
I honestly forgot about the ‘new’ livestream since no one I know uses it. Especially with the fact that livestream still lets you make and use ‘old’ accounts.

As an example I just made a new ‘old’ livestream channel and ran it through the site I linked. So I guess it boils down to, as long as the guys streaming know to use an ‘old’ account, it shouldn’t be an issue.

#20

Ah, interesting. I was under the assumption that they had phased out the old channels, since every Livestream I’ve come across in the past year (including the two or three FRC events this season) were the new ones.

Guess that’s something to tell the stream admins to be aware of. While I do like the new platform in general, it sucks that they put such a basic feature behind a paywall.

#21

Good ideas. I like the idea of the tricaster except for the price. We have been using a similar setup to the capturecard/xsplit setup mentioned earlier. I will continue to look into the Code Red box out of curiosity. Any other ideas?

#22

I don’t know what your budget is, but this is only $500 and is probably the cheapest professional solution available.

#23

I sent a nice note into FRC Support and they said sent it onto the Marketing Dept. I figure if they spend as much money with Show Ready to produce the events with the look and feel they require, they might as well put a little more into the broadcasting of all events to ensure that it meets their quality standards since the video will be around long after the events occur. I also encouraged them to reach out to the community of people who have done this to get additional feedback as well. Here’s to hoping that they do!

#24

FIRST HQ listened!

Lastly, I was observing the setup of the webcast and collecting feedback from the individuals who helped run the Indiana FIRST webcasts this season. FIRST worked with Indiana FIRST this season to pilot a web streaming solution that was used to broadcast all Indiana FIRST events, including IRI, and collecting feedback on that experience is important as we evaluate the effectiveness of the pilot. We will be compiling the results of that pilot and evaluating alternatives as we continue to move towards a way to get better access to real-time and archived video of all FRC events.

#25

looks over towards the PNW streaming crew

#26

In my opinion - best way to go is just using a camera plugged into a computer streaming to twitch. Twitch is by far the best service in my opinion, however, if you need multiple camera angles, ect. use XSplit

#27

Multiple camera angles normally lower the quality of a stream. They’re very rarely done right, and normally prevent you from seeing the action. Full Field view makes for a much better experience most of the time. :]

#28

I did several Michigan district events and the state competition with vMix. IMO, it is a very cost effective option. http://vmixhd.com.
I ran it on a simple tower PC with a 1Gb video card and an AverMedia PCI capture card (c127) and a Go Pro Hero 4. The field display was captured with a Epiphan vga2usb adapter.

For $350 vMix allows 1000 HD inputs meaning all types of media, not just cameras. DVDs, various movie file formats, audio, etc. It was very easy to have all of the various FIRST videos, event sponsor slides, etc. queued ahead of time for quick live switching.

vMix allows for up to 3 stream outputs, although this season FiM just used one (Twitch). It also allows recording to disk. If you visit the FIRST in Michigan You Tube page, the videos uploaded from vMix are Southfield, Woodhaven, Centerline, Bedford, and States. Note, earlier in the season we placed the Go Pro about 10 ft from the field. Later we placed it back 25-30ft for a better wide view with no “fisheye” effect.

For streaming providers, I’ve used both You Tube and Twitch. You Tube is very picky about music. The events I did in 2014 were flagged for the music in the kickoff video which I know was ok…Twitch is content blocked in most school systems. You can stream out, but some people may not be able to watch. Both were fine for quality. You need to be conservative on streaming. I think I was at 1.5Mb running 720p.

Hope this helps some people!

#29

This is really exciting! I’ve always wondered why a simple livestream kit wasn’t included with the fields. When compared to the cost of the rest of the field, an extra box with a laptop, a couple cameras and one of these things couldn’t be all that bad. That isn’t to say it wouldn’t be costly, but the benefits could vastly outweigh the costs.

#30

I really wish FiM would stream to YouTube as well… As you said, Twitch is blocked in most school systems. If I’m watching at home, I prefer Twitch, I think it the best livestream platform, but it’s blocked at my school. Usually I just Proxy in, but that SEVERELY degrades the quality that I can get… FiM should just stream to YouTube as well.

#31

Doesn’t YouTube take down any stream their contentID system flags as containing copyrighted audio? Correct me if I’m wrong. YouTube is a great streaming platform, but the risk of being cut off because the mic picks up the background music would be a showstopper for me.

(This is a useful thread for us as we prepare our off season event)

#32

If you’re capable of streaming to three different websites, like some platforms allows, I’d stream to the following:

  1. Twitch
  2. Youtube
  3. Livestream

This gives you a nice range of websites that can act as back-ups in the case of a stream being taken down or the website being blocked by school wi-fi.

#33

MAR streams live to YouTube and, to my knowledge, has never gotten a live stream taken down (event music is not broadcast over the stream). Kevin (Deetman on CD), who is in charge of the stream, would be the most reliable person to get more info from on the current MAR stream setup.

#34

MAR has been streaming to YouTube for 2 seasons now. With our setup, we have never had a stream taken down during the event. I am aware of one instance in which we got a “warning” during a live event that temporarily blocked the stream, but was quickly remedied as the Mic was turned off. See https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/3367684?hl=en for a good description of the Live Stream Content ID repercussions. We sometimes see after the event has completed that the content ID system has found a song in the background that it didn’t detect live. Most of the time, this just results in automatic ads and blocking in some countries of the event recording, but we are able to upload the individual matches afterwards anyway.

Our set up is simple. Game sounds and Mics go to our DJ’s audio mixer, which then sends us back a clean feed of just the game sounds and mics for the live stream. When the MCs and game announcers are not talking, make sure that they turn their Mics off. Open mics are the only reason background music ever seems to get detected, not to mention they can pick up unwanted private conversations around the field.

More details on the MAR streaming system can be found in this whitepaper: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3160

#35

For the district and off-season event we host in Midland, MI, we built a custom streaming rig that can run up to 8 cameras at once in HD resolutions up to 4K. The setup looks something like this:

[ul]
[li]1x Custom-Built Windows PC with a BlackMagicDesign DeckLink Mini Recorder card installed.[/li][li]3x PC Monitors (1 for showing all the camera feeds, the other 2 for the computer to show the stream and the switching software)[/li][li]1x BlackMagicDesign ATEM Production Studio 4K Video Switcher[/li][li]4x HD-SDI Mini-Cams[/li][li]1x VGA to HD-SDI Converter box (for receiving field overlay)[/li][li]1000ft of HD-SDI cable, cut and spliced to various lengths[/li][li]Open Broadcaster Software (Streams to YouTube, Twitch, and others, and is free)[/li][/ul]

We use the system to handle ALL of the video needs for our events, including running the projector and sponsor slides. We’re also in the process of integrating a sound system into the rig with 4 wireless mics, a mixer, and a set of 4 1000w speakers so we don’t have to rent those anymore, though obviously not every venue will need this.

Pros:
[ul]
[li]Full HD support up to 4K[/li][li]Effectively (for our venue) no cable length limits due to using HD-SDI instead of HDMI[/li][li]Cheap, high quality cameras work great for fixed views and can be easily mounted to the field perimeter.[/li][li]Pulls scoreboard overlay (and sound effects) from the FMS computer[/li][li]Outputs in HD-SDI or HDMI at up to 4K resolution[/li][li]ATEM Switcher has 4 HDMI and 4 HD-SDI inputs to allow for compatibility with a variety of cameras[/li][li]ATEM Switcher can receive audio from XLR, RCA, HD-SDI, and HDMI sources.[/li][li]Switcher interfaces virtually (no physical control panel) though a program that can be run from any computer networked with the ATEM Switcher.[/li][/ul]Cons:[ul]
[li]All video inputs MUST be the exact same format (size and framerate)[/li][LIST]
[li]Converters can be used to get around this but are expensive (~$300ea)[/li][/ul]
[li]OBS has a bit of a learning curve (not too bad though)[/li][/LIST]Results:[ul]
[li]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyg5HkLx5pX20jxAcMilKBg/videos[/li][/ul]
We built this system after hosting our first district competition and deciding that since we wanted to keep hosting events for the foreseeable future, we would also want out own video system suited to our needs.

On the note of you’re original question regarding the Code Red box, someone may correct me on this, but my understanding is that most events (at least in Michigan) haven’t used the Code Red box for a few years now. FiM has started to move towards a different streaming setup using a GoPro, a basic streaming adapter (~$100), and a cheap computer to control it via USB. The main advantage is that the streamed videos are uploaded immediately after each match, the downside is that there is no audio, other camera angles, or score overlay 99% of the time (Some events that use it take the extra steps to include these, though not often).

EDIT: Apparently the MAR streaming system that Deetman linked to is almost identical to ours. Aside from the different cameras and a few other minor things. Go figure? Great minds think alike I guess. =P