[EWCP] EWCPcast, 1-5-12 and 1-8-12, Twas the night before kickoff and Game Reactions

Hey everyone, it’s that time of year again, the moment that our lives become dominated by robots and competitions and EWCPcast hopes to make it a bit easier for all of us.

On Thursday Night, January the 5th, we’ll be doing our ‘Twas the night before Kick-off cast’. The basic outline is this:

-Good practices for analyzing the game.
-Good practices for brain storming.
-Good practices for prototyping.
-Efficient use of the critical first week of build.
-Basic Build Scheduling.

Then, on Sunday Night, January 8th, we’ll be doing our ‘Initial Game Reactions’ cast. The basic outline is this:

-Overall impressions of the game.
-Interesting rules.
-Predictions of how the game may or may not play out.
-An in-depth discussion about the lack of minibots… (A guy can dream right :wink: )
-Game Piece sourcing, if available…
-Open call in period for listeners to talk about their thoughts on the game.

There will be minimal in-depth game analyzable in this cast - we’re doing this to prevent influencing teams design decisions…

As always, the casts will be live at 9pm EST and posted to iTunes and Talkshoe shortly after they end. This link will take you to the talkshoe page for the cast: www.talkshoe.com/tc/98466

Hope you can all tune in.

Will you recite twas the night before kickoff on the January 5th episode? If you don’t have one, I’ve been working one one. :slight_smile:

In addition to this, the cast on the 5th will also be a way to teach teams how to relax and not get too anxious about kickoff.

By the way, there are two or three casts after the Registration Part II cast that we didn’t advertise much if people need something more to feed their robot thirst before kickoff :slight_smile: http://ewcp.org/

Quick update on the 1/5 cast: Jon Jack from 1538, The Holy Cows, Jim Zondag from 33, The Killer Bees, and Karthik from 1114, Simbotics, will be joining us on the call.

Get pumped and be ready to tune in!

**Kick-Off Tips and Tricks

  • Get Encrypted Manual Beforehand
  • Initial Rule Reading
  • Analyzing Strategy (General)
  • Don’t Panic
  • Get Encrypted Manual and KOP Checklist beforehand.
  • Inventory your KOP, you only have three days to correct

**Build Week One

  • Prototyping
  • CAD Design
  • Parts Ordering

**Cowscout Chat

  • Cow Scout
  • Is Cowscout better than paper scouting?
  • Is data private?
  • What kind of hardware/software is backing the system?
  • Have you done load testing? Will system handle multiple teams hitting it
  • Is an offline version available?
  • Is data backed up?
  • API?

**Simbot iOS App

  • Why an iOS App?
  • What content is in there?
  • Any plans to port to Android?
  • Requisite joke about Blackberry

I just wanted to say I am really glad you guys are bringing the EWCP to the next level. You guys have gone from a group of friends to a great resource in a very short period of time. I listen to every cast and each time I come away with something extremely useful. I really look forward to see how it evolves in the next few years!

I can’t plan too far in advance but the EWCPcast plans are actually publicly viewable at Trello

Excellent stuff! Are each of the build week casts just a discussion of what was completed by your various teams on the corresponding week (vaguely for obvious reasons), or will they each have a topic also?

It depends on the week. Some weeks are just a general discussion of what milestones you should be reaching (with the caveat that each team is different, we are just talking generally). Others add on a special guest to talk about a topic of interest. For example, Week 3 will include Alex Cormier from TwoPencil Designs to talk about banners, spirit supplies, and some of the other products they offer. We are working on lining up other useful topics but we will probably hold off until we are able to determine what is relevant for the game.

As always, if you feel there is a topic we need to talk about let us know and we will do our best to fit it in.

Absolutely. I will be sure to shoot any ideas your way.

I really like the recruiting sponsors and students idea. It seems like a universal problem for many teams (on the sponsor and student side).

I also agree with you that many of the casts will probably depend on the game itself.

In the event that I am unable to call-in tonight, I would like let everyone know that some members of the EWCP will be at the NH Kickoff on Saturday to take pictures, video, and do some interviews if we get the chance. We’ll let you know when this content is available.

If you see us, stop by and say hello.

Good luck this season.

Hey everyone,

The talk is starting soon. 9:00-10:30ish Tune in to listen (link in first thread post)

http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-98466/TS-576829.mp3 Download Link

Here is the chat log from the cast. For those of you who were in there live I do apologize. We had our first troll come in and try to disrupt the cast… Least that’s what I’m telling myself. If this was a member of the CD community… seek help immediately. I’m saddened that I even have to say this.

<schreiaj> We're getting started in about 10 minutes. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1096379&postcount=5 There is the link to the rough outline
<schreiaj> Laugh at how off topic we go. You know the deal.
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<Stogi> Dustin i'll call in a bit.
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<thefro526> Alright Akash,we're starting in 10 or so
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<jeffrodriguez> hey hey
<Stogi> kk need my mug of OJ
<BrendanB> oj!
<schreiaj> "OJ"
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<Stogi> "oj"
<jeffrodriguez> is it recording?
<schreiaj> Not yet
<jeffrodriguez> this is great stuff
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<schreiaj> the full District cast is available at http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/12/frc-districts-past/
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<thefro526> District Cast is really interesting
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<schreiaj> It was quite interesting actually, very enlightening (and I competed in districts since 2009)
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<jeffrodriguez> yeah
<jeffrodriguez> me
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<XaulZan11> Thanks for finally not hosting a cast during a football game 
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<jeffrodriguez> It would save me time making them right now
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<jwfoss> jeff jump on facebook
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<jeffrodriguez> there
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<Bryan33> Just a heads up I posted that this was starting soon on your CD thread 
<schreiaj> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1096379&postcount=5
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<SuperNerd256> Thanks Bryan. Your post got me here just in time! 
<Guest 20> I'm excited
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<Guest 20> I should make an account; Grim Tuesday btw
<Bryan33> Sure thing guys.
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<jwfoss> jeff you've got some more info on the facebook
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<Guest 27> Is EI a second-place Chairman's?
<BrendanB> kinda
<Guest 27> Is it a team adversity award?
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<Guest 27> Nobody knows.
<jeffrodriguez> thanks
<jtemple> EI is given as a JV Chairman's in some places
<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/05/17/chairmans-chat/
<schreiaj> More information on Chariman's awards
<BrendanB> You really have to listen to the description to get the idea of why it was given.
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<Guest 27> woah
<IndySam> rosebud
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<jeffrodriguez> you're always in trouble
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<schreiaj> Yeah yeah yeah
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<schreiaj> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1096379&postcount=5
<Baselthe2nd> I presume Jared is "SE Pennsylvania," just to be clear?
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<Stogi> yes
<Jared341> no this is jared
<Jared341> oh
<Jared341> on the phone
<BrendanB> who is SE PA?
<Jared341> yes 
<Stogi> weird
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<jeffrodriguez> book time at the pool to test your robot
<SuperNerd256> My mentor made the app! 
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<Stogi> Bring a notebook
<Guest 39> Has the cast started yet or am I doing something wrong?
<rtfgnow> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.appdelegates.frcmanual&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImNvbS5hcHBkZWxlZ2F0ZXMuZnJjbWFudWFsIl0.
<Baselthe2nd> It's started; you should be hearing things.
<rtfgnow> that is the android app
<Bryan33> and a Pen, I always seem to forget a pen..
<schreiaj> Thank you Alex
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<jeffrodriguez> bring a box of pens
<jeffrodriguez> everyone will love you
<schreiaj> http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/frc-manual/id488793605?mt=8
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<Guest 27> Let's use globe motors!
<Guest 27> Oh wait.
<jeffrodriguez> ha
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<Baselthe2nd> Sudden lack of bumper rules?!
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<kabakowski> I think that would be noticed Basel
<BrendanB> must be a mistake bumpers are always complex
<schreiaj> I would dance in the streets
<BrendanB> no bumpers hallelujah~
<schreiaj> RTFGNOW would have to provide video
<Guest 27> No more bumpers=field in shambles
<schreiaj> Bah, we had fields for 16 yrs before bumpers
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<jeffrodriguez> yeah
<Guest 27> We have had three different systems
<jeffrodriguez> optional bumpers
<Guest 27> us seniors
<Guest 27> 5-5 teams are 1 seeds?
<Guest 27> what.
<BrendanB> loved no bumper years!
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<schreiaj> I miss wedges 
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<Guest 20> Question guys: Is it morally right to do that?
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<BrendanB> to do what?
<Guest 20> that being take advantage of the ranking system, ie, score on yourself a la 2010
<Guest 27> No, that was the big problem with it
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<BrendanB> yes. it is also called coopertition.
<XaulZan11> You play to win the competition not the match
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<rtfgnow> unfortunately some mentors/teachers/others force their morals on students
<Meredith16> It is morally right (IMHO) but NO FUN!!!
<Guest 44> Maybe they'll just include the bumper rules somewhere else in the currently-encrypted manual
<IndySam> It was fun when we did it ay IRI
<schreiaj> Maybe instead of bumpers on robots they will put them where they belong...
<schreiaj> on the bleachers
<BrendanB> ^like
<Guest 27> The competition is also a place to promote your awardability.
<Guest 20> Thanks a lot guys
<kabakowski> I wasn't fun for the manual scorers at IRI... ;P
<IndySam> But I gave you a shirt 
<rtfgnow> metric was bigger
<Guest 27> That silly cylinder
<jeffrodriguez> and that's why we crashed a rover into Mars
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<Guest 27> We had to shave stuff down for that 0_o
<schreiaj> And a rocket or two
<Stogi> BTW, Team 11 was nice enough to post the game manual in a zip file for those of you who are too lazy
<Stogi> http://mort11.org/static/manual/manual.zip
<Jared341> Thanks Akash
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<BrendanB> thanks akash!
<Baselthe2nd> Thank you!
<Guest 27> hosting on your site?
<Guest 27> Big deal alert
<karthik> Just remember, FIRST asks teams not to mirror the manual
<karthik> Caveat emptor
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<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/08/average-and-what-it-means-to-your-team/
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<jeffrodriguez> 4
<jeffrodriguez> ouch
<SuperNerd256> That could be because of defensive robots
<BrendanB> 5
<kabakowski> 3
<schreiaj> It isn't
<jeffrodriguez> 4
<XaulZan11> 6
<SuperNerd256> 6
<kabakowski> 0
<IanCurtis> 3
<pyeung45> 4
<jeffrodriguez> 0
<SuperNerd256> 3
<jeffrodriguez> trick question
<Guest 10> 5 per robot would be 15 per alliance
<SuperNerd256> YES!
<jeffrodriguez> 0
<jtemple> 0
<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/06/2010-scoring-analysis/
<BrendanB> 0
<pyeung45> 6-8
<XaulZan11> teams or alliances?
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<schreiaj> We did analysis on alliances
<schreiaj> Jim is talking teams
<IanCurtis> Going off what Karthik said, I did this the past couple of years to see just how bad people are at guessing scores
<IanCurtis> http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88384
<schreiaj> Ian your link broke
<IanCurtis> got it the 2nd time
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<schreiaj> kk
<jeffrodriguez> WIth all of these stats though, what are the averages if you take out the robots that don't score at all
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<schreiaj> So basically, the average of all teams that achieved the game challenge effectively
<schreiaj> -effectively
<Guest 20> Live role playing: How do you organize it, we had a disorganized mess when we tried it
<Guest 47> mmm bagels
<Bryan33> p
<Jared341> ^ easier for some games than for others
<Guest 20> we used humans as robots, should we use something else (ie, bagels?)
<Bryan33> *Sorry
<SuperNerd256> We role play by using teams of humans. Some score, some defend, etc. To make it more interesting, we make them use different drive trains.
<kabakowski> When we simulated it for breakaway, we had students pull robot types out of a hat
<kabakowski> It gave us a pretty good variety
<Stogi> put a kid on a dolly
<Stogi> push em around
<Stogi> ram into walls
<SuperNerd256> Saw it
<Stogi> cal it a day
<Stogi> call*
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<IanCurtis> @Jeff, just looking at Jim's OPR distr for 2011 I'd say it shifts it from 0-5 to 10-15.
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<Baselthe2nd> Excellent
<jeffrodriguez> hmm
<jeffrodriguez> that's what I thought
<Guest 20> fabulous
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<jeffrodriguez> @Ian
<Guest 58> kill yourself foss 
<jeffrodriguez> Moblie phones bro
<Guest 58> i want to see videoooos
<schreiaj> phones are hard Jeff
<SuperNerd256> I start brainstorming before the game video ends. 
<jeffrodriguez> Stop in Berlin on your way
<Guest 20> haha
<kabakowski> lolololol
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<jwfoss> we'll get it done
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<schreiaj> Berlin makes me crave donuts
<jeffrodriguez> ?
<Guest 58> this is james btw
<SuperNerd256> Of course half of it never works, but it's always fun to get my mind going
<schreiaj> no idea why
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<Guest 27> If you put a robot that runs 80% of the time
<Guest 27> you're in the top 40% of a given regional
<XaulZan11> just build a good drivetrain, know the rules and practice and your be above average
<SuperNerd256> If you have a moving base, you can succeed in a tournament, no matter the game
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<Guest 27> If you put a robot that does one good task 80% of the time, you're in the top 20% of a given regional
<SuperNerd256> Love you 1114! 
<Bryan33> Great Video, watched it eariler today.
<Stogi> < drive train that black
<Stogi> blocks*
<Guest 27> Don't suffer from First-Year Swerve Syndrome
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<Guest 27> Just go with a 6-wheel
<schreiaj> Nerd, Jim agreed to read some poetry earlier. Y ou probably get your wish.
<Guest 27> if you're lost
<jwfoss> 2006, best game ever
<SuperNerd256>  YAY!
<SuperNerd256> Thanks Jim!
<Guest 27> 2008 148
<jeffrodriguez> @Foss yes
<Guest 27> Drive in circles
<jimzondag> I have a sweet poem
<Guest 27> Win
<SuperNerd256> I REALLY want 2012 to be like 2006
<jimzondag> 13 verses
<Guest 45> speed seems very helpful
<Stogi> No poems
<Stogi> Ever
<SuperNerd256> You're the best Jim!
<Guest 27> Everyone wants AIm High 2
<pyeung45> i want an aim high game too
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<jeffrodriguez> football and parking cones!
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<Stogi> EWCP wants an aim high game + 04 + ramps
<Guest 57> How about Lunacy v2? 
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<SuperNerd256> NO
<Guest 27> Both shooting games
<thefro526> Lunacy V2 would be besy
<Guest 61> ramps ftw
<Guest 57> D:
<Guest 27> Aim High goals and Lunacy goals
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<Guest 27> in the same field
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<SuperNerd256> How about Lunacy with regolith slopes, stairs, and game pieces made of the material the wheels are made of!
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<Guest 44> ...no
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<Baselthe2nd> Maize Craze + ramps + water
<Guest 27> mad?
<pyeung45> king of the hill with regolith!!!
<Baselthe2nd> Tennis balls in a pond
<BrendanB> I go back to work at that point!
<jwfoss> 2006... with mobile goals
<Stogi> http://mort11.org/static/manual/manual.zip
<IanCurtis> King of the Hill in '03 had a slippery top too, didn't it?
<schreiaj> Yes
<Guest 57> one second, what does every game have? I think jim just said it but i missed it
<BrendanB> a challenge?
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<Jared341> 57: a simple task for rookies
<Baselthe2nd> An avenue for scoring with just a simple robot
<Guest 57> oho k thanks
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<IndySam> FIRST choice will be very important this year.
<Stogi> masking tape and sharpie kids
<michaelblake3481> MISSING PARTS... what's been the EWCP-talkers experience?
<Stogi> Usually nothing significant
<BrendanB> We didn't have 09 wheels in our kit
<IndySam> Very different this year
<Jared341> Never had anything missing
<Jared341> One year had 2x right handed window motors instead of 1x left and 1x right
<Stogi> lol
<pyeung45> always had all our parts i believe
<jeffrodriguez> Order early
<SuperNerd256> Crio is negligible. 
<jeffrodriguez> great story
<kabakowski> Ouch.
<Guest 27> don't give the cRIO to the IFI guy...
<Guest 27> conspiracy
<Stogi> ^
<Stogi> i wouldve dropped an IFI controller on it and act like nothing ever happened
<SuperNerd256> I know for 2012 you have to have your kit checked before you leave with it at the venue for the Kinect
<schreiaj> < has more CRIOS than 1114 in 09
<jeffrodriguez> cardboard and wood
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<Guest 27> But that's a very obvious white, green and purple box
<BrendanB> Supernerd they just check tha tyou have all the packages when you leave.
<jeffrodriguez> vex
<jeffrodriguez> edubot
<Guest 27> and that's FIRST/MS
<kabakowski> BrendanB: they noted somewhere that you have to open one of the boxes to ensure that you do indeed have the Kinect
<kabakowski> aside from checking to make sure you have all of the boxes
<SuperNerd256> No, I mean you have to go through a process where volunteers at the event need to go through your kit when you get it.
<kabakowski> ^
<BrendanB> okay that is different. not
<Stogi> we bought a bunch of VEX to proto with
<BrendanB> *not opening everything
<connorworley1538> lots of wooden roller claws and minibots last year
<SuperNerd256> Yeah
<Bryan33> gehto prototype.. I'm going to use that.
<Stogi> yes
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<pyeung45> in 2010 we made a frame with different holes at different heights so we could test different locations for ball rollers
<IndySam> hey I live in the ghetto!
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<IanCurtis> https://plus.google.com/photos/111510133810686324057/albums/5550596688191178561
<IanCurtis> Here's some ghetto prototypes and the robot we ultimately built.
<Guest 63> What are the thoughts on iterative design vs. prototyping time?
<Stogi> ^ can you clarify your question
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<Stogi> Guest 63 can you clarify your question please
<Guest 63> how much is it worth to get precise information using a wood prototype versus build the design, test, modify iteratively?
<tombot> bad prototypes bring you backwards.
<Stogi> if you solve rudimentary issues in your prototype you'll need to modify less later on
<connorworley1538> you want some precision but there's really not enough time in build season to get the perfect grip on a tube or something
<Stogi> its better to have iterations of a prototype sometimes
<SuperNerd256> Something we do on our team: Even prototypes need some serious thought before you start. It saves a lot of time in the long run
<Stogi> but then again a prototype for one team might be a final product for another
<IndySam> pegboard rocks!
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<IndySam> and 8020
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<Guest 63> and design please
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<grimtuesday> Please answer the other question too, and also define lock
<IndySam> Sunday night
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<SuperNerd256> Lock: A final design, no changing from that point onwards
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<grimtuesday> but what defines a 'design'?
<schreiaj> not final DESIGN final prioritization
<SuperNerd256> Oh. 
<grimtuesday> Does that mean full CAD model made, and being machined
<Guest 25> Do you find building two robots during the Build Season (one practice, one final) to be worth it?
<grimtuesday> or does it mean "We're doing an elevator and we're doing it like so"
<SuperNerd256> I hear it is. We're gonna do that this year
<schreiaj> no it means you know what you are designing towards
<Stogi> two robots = yes
<pyeung45> 233...3 tube auton 
<Stogi> worth it if you use it correctly
<grimtuesday> How do you guys decide on priorities? Is it a vote?
<connorworley1538> no voting allowed
<schreiaj> Andrew Lawrence, please let me clarify what I meant
<Guest 63> for those who vote, is it an iterative vote or do you vote all at once?
<Guest 27> Significant Changes usually come in Week 6 of 2010 0_0
<Guest 63> connor: what do you do?
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<Stogi> no votes
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<Stogi> a vote is an opinion without a reason
<SuperNerd256> ok
<connorworley1538> analyze the game
<connorworley1538> find the best way to get the most points
<Guest 63> Stogi: who decides your final goals?
<Baselthe2nd> Discussed consensus over voting any day
<Stogi> Team as a whole then narrows to team leadership
<Guest 27> You fight for the closest you get to consensus
<Guest 27> then officers and lead mentors come to the final decision
<Bryan33> Vote is a four letter word..
<Baselthe2nd> Concerns must be addressed whether or not the questioner is in leadership..
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<pyeung45> ^agreed
<Guest 19> Offense or defense what do you find more effective based on pass experience?
<pyeung45> depends on game
<SuperNerd256> @ Guest 19, Depends on the game
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<XaulZan11> I think all the ppl on the call will go offense based on their expectations and abilities
<jwfoss> good defense always works. most teams dont play good defense
<Stogi> @Supernerd please allow some of the more experienced mentors on the call answer questions
<connorworley1538> an offensive robot can always play defense!
<schreiaj> Akash was pure D last year
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<Stogi> pure d was lame
<Stogi> so boring
<SuperNerd256> @Stogi Ok, but I'm trying to answer from experience.
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<tombot> Defense can and will get you onto Einstein
<tombot> Done correctly.
<tombot> :P
<jwfoss> tom would know
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<Guest 68> examine your assumptions; often a question that "everyone" knows is dumb or stupid, is in reality neither when it exposes flaws in what "everyone" kno
<jwfoss> tom you were 195 coach in 2006 right?
<XaulZan11> When was the last purely defensive robot that make it to einstien? 148?
<tombot> Yes, Justin.
<pyeung45> In my experience, every year we have designed more for offense we seemed to do better. (Pickers not pickees)possibly causation vs correlation though
<jwfoss> hows CA?
<tombot> Warm :P
<Stogi> :P
<schreiaj> Lucky, Florida was 36 this morning.
<Stogi> have fun with the new team
<Guest 61> some offensive robots have to become purely defensive when they go to Einstein b/c of their alliance partners
<Jared341> Games are designed by a GDC who wants to see offense; it's no surprise you find success with a more offensive-based design
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<Jared341> i think the swearing rules should be relaxed when referring to banebots
<karthik> I'm with ya Jared
<Guest 63> what are your team budgets?
<Jared341> they cost me florida 
<schreiaj> I would agree but I have a hunch people would disagree.
<schreiaj> Jared come back to Florida 
<flyingcow93g> ~500$ this year
<thefro526> Karthik, you could've said 'crap'
<karthik> I wasn't sure if "crap" was allowed
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<Stogi> crap is fine
<karthik> Crap, I should have known
<IndySam> Crap?
<Meredith16> Karthik doesn't know crap???
<thefro526> Crap is allowed, lol
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<connorworley1538> oh hey it's me
<IndySam> Cow pie?
<karthik> I'm not familiar, my body only expels rose petals
<thefro526> Lolol
<IndySam> What about when Toronto plays BB?
<Stogi> < Always uses paper scouting
<karthik> 3-3 start, not bad for a rebuilding year.
<schreiaj> Karthik doesn't know crap... if you all take one thing from this chat it should be that quote 
<Guest 23> http://www.cowscout.com/
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<Stogi> yeah screw 816
<flyingcow93g> ^looooooooooool
<thefro526> Akash, go away
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<schreiaj> Stogi went away 
<Stogi> yo chill with that
<IndySam> admin
<Guest 43> come competition season, will all teams be on CowScout, or do we have to do what they're asking on there now and add that team
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<Stogi> You could post on Cowscout's facebook page possibly
<Guest 61> so to scout with cowscout during competitions, i assume you would need laptops and internet connection?
<Stogi> https://www.facebook.com/cowscout
<connorworley1538> yes
<schreiaj> 61, that is correct
<grimtuesday> Do you guys have a team working on it during the season?
<connorworley1538> yeah
<Stogi> Connor works on cowscout
<Stogi> ^ this guy right here
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<Guest 43> does CowScout have a mobile version?
<SuperNerd256> Is there a place on Cowscout where robot info can be put in?
<connorworley1538> no, nothing besides photos
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<connorworley1538> we may add robot info
<pyeung45> i like this idea
<Guest 45> Can it be used offline? Do all regionals have WiFi?
<Stogi> Robot info has the possibility of becoming inaccurate
<Stogi> because a lot of kids who scout are derp
<Stogi> and could enter incorrect info about a robot
<Guest 61> isn't wifi at competitions illegal?
<SuperNerd256> Maybe teams put in info about their own robot, and info put in by external teams must be approved by the team
<connorworley1538> field is 5ghz
<Baselthe2nd> We'll find out on Saturday if wifi is illegal..
<connorworley1538> 2.4ghz networks won't interfere
<pyeung45> maybe robot info could be contained to teams so only team x can see what team x posted
<jwfoss> mobile hot spots should be fine.
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<tombot> html5 storage bro
<schreiaj> ^
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<SuperNerd256> Let 1538 go to champs so Cowscout can be there!
<flyingcow93g> lol
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<jwfoss> what about match prediction?
<connorworley1538> simple OPR match prediction will probably be added
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<jwfoss> sounds good
<avanboekel> whats cowscout?
<michaelblake3481> MUCH simpler to emit/consume XML... NO?
<grimtuesday> Will CowScout replace The Blue Alliance?
<Guest 27> wow
<Guest 61> will there be video on cowscout? or the ability to upload video?
<schreiaj> I would prefer json over xml
<michaelblake3481> Just add an XML stub... much easier than adding API functionality...
<Guest 27> will there be free money?
<Guest 27> this sounds awesome
<connorworley1538> we currently get video from TBA
<tombot> TBA needs devs
<Guest 61> ahh ok, thank you Connor
<connorworley1538> adding video via youtube is a planned feature
<schreiaj> Tom, I'll see if I can point some of my coworkers your way.
<Guest 23> Our team will be using CowScout this year. Thank you 1538
<jwfoss> are the marra brothers mia?
<connorworley1538> if we do release an API it'll probably be JSON
<tombot> I live with Greg
<jwfoss> real life getting in the way of TBA support?
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<Guest 43> How early will we see the CowScout database and what they will be scouting for this year's competition?
<grimtuesday> Our team will be stealing features from CowScout for our database this year. Thanks!
<Guest 63> *borrowing
<Guest 43> like game-specific things such as how they score etc.
<Guest 27> mobile app?
<Guest 82> keep talking
<tombot> CowScout looks great!
<Guest 27> or mobile-browser compatible?
<connorworley1538> probably within the first week of kickoff
<tombot> Good job!
<Guest 23> can we upload CowScout on our smart phones?
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<Guest 82> *Edited*
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<karthik> Excuse me?
<Meredith16> Huh?
<connorworley1538> we'll add enough different data aspects to accurately represent a score
<IndySam> nice
<Guest 27> It looks mobile browser friendly
<schreiaj> I would like to apologize on behalf of guest 82
<SuperNerd256> 0
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<michaelblake3481> CowScout --> Emit/Consume XML?
<schreiaj> And remind anyone that posting things like that will equal me banning you
<Guest 43> I can't open CowScout on my Droid Razr
<connorworley1538> what do you mean michael?
<tombot> "I can't open CowScout on my Droid Razr" I found the problem!
<flyingcow93g> lol
<michaelblake3481> Loosely coupled app?
<schreiaj> Better than blackberry
<grimtuesday> Question about Kitbot on Steroids: Compare it's weight and drive strength to a standard west coast drive?
<schreiaj> define standard west coast drive
<Guest 27> Am I going to be that guy and ask why there is no love for Android?
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<Stogi> Why do people have a fascination with WCD?
<grimtuesday> cantilevered 6" wedgetop wheels
<Stogi> it is an optimized drive
<Guest 43> Android love right here!
<Stogi> but it doesn't need to be compared to what a team can build with a kitbot
<michaelblake3481> no need for API if I can obtain info from/place info into CS via XML...
<schreiaj> Grim, so 254 didnt build a standard wcd?
<grimtuesday> well, our team is considering going with a kit frame, even though we have more than the ability to do more
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<connorworley1538> we might allow CSV upload
<connorworley1538> for teams using excel
<jwfoss> do the Kitbot and focus on superstruture
<Guest 23> http://www.simbotics.org/media/news/2012/simphone-and-kitbot-steroids-resources-released
<grimtuesday> what did 254 do?
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<schreiaj> cantilevered ~4" wheels
<michaelblake3481> that's a good start, but, real-time bi-directional XML would EPIC...
<Guest 63> To add to grimtuesday's comment, we are thinking about trying to evaluate the benefit of designing a drive train ahead of the season.
<tombot> 254 builds the same drive train because they have done it a million times and it pays to have that experience
<Guest 63> is there a benefit to this?
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<schreiaj> Tom, my point was that the phrase "standard wcd" is tossed around a lot but it isn't defined anywhere
<Guest 63> Or might this do more harm than good due to the restrictions it applies to us.
<Stogi> The KBOS is not supposed to be an option from WCD or other drives
<flyingcow93g> it could stop a bullet.
<flyingcow93g> once.
<Stogi> its supposed to be an upgrade option for the kitbot
<Stogi> nothing more nothin less
<SuperNerd256> Where do you get the plywood, and what type? Also, can you use alligator clips instead of rivets on the wheels?
<Stogi> Plywood.....dude Home Depot
<jwfoss> use rivets
<Stogi> if you want to go fancy, buy baltic birch
<rtfgnow> Are there rules against performance enhancing drugs in FRC?
<SuperNerd256> I'm not a hardware guy
<jwfoss> the alligator clips wreck the floor
<schreiaj> rtfgnow... WHAT?
<jwfoss> i dont think they should even be legal
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<grimtuesday> I think he's implying that the 1114 app is a performance enchancing drug?
<rtfgnow> performance enhancing drug - steroids
<grimtuesday> How much better is 1114's real drive as compared to the kit
<flyingcow93g> how important is that wheel grip lining stuff. How much better is it compared to the regular kit wheels?
<Baselthe2nd> Alex/rtfgnow: We'll find out on Saturday?
<grimtuesday> and what is 1114's standard drive, for reference
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<Stogi> flyingcow- are you talking about roughtop/wedgetop tread?
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<flyingcow93g> yessir
<Stogi> higher traction, but not needed
<schreiaj> 111 has 3 CMP w/ KOP wheels
<Stogi> 111 rolls on kit wheels usually IIRC
<Stogi> yea
<avanboekel> is 1114's drive train a wcd?
<Stogi> no
<Stogi> jesus you kids and WCD
<Stogi> :P
<XaulZan11> KOP wheels on a crab drive =/= Kitbot
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<Guest 43> how important is it to make two robots for build season?
<lawrence1503> 1114 uses "Midwest drive"
<lawrence1503> Axles supported on both sides.
<Stogi> 1114 uses "Eh Drive"
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<Bryan33> Canadalanddrive
<Stogi> its pretty great
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<Stogi> Moose Drive
<tombot> that was a terrible joke
<schreiaj> Did I say kitbot? I said kit wheels
<schreiaj> Nick, where is the moose?
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<lawrence1503> Since 2007, they've used variants of 6/8 WD like this with no issues like ever.
<flyingcow93g> did you guys talk about the kinect yet? I missed most of this
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<Guest 43> does the moose fit the weight limit? lol
<lawrence1503> The moose is powering the phone and computer i'm using right now.
<Guest 19> Talk about the kinect
<schreiaj> Kinect was discussed in the beta cast
<jwfoss> nick if thats midwest... what is East Coast Drive?
<jwfoss> ahaha
<lawrence1503> Colson wheels.
<lawrence1503> :3
<jwfoss> dead axles
<Stogi> colsons
<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/blog/2011/12/13/frc-2010-control-system-beta/
<flyingcow93g> thx
<lawrence1503> Awesomedrive.
<Stogi> < starting a new team
<Stogi> will make kitbot
<Stogi> pretty simple decision
<Stogi> unless you're Aren Hill
<Stogi> :P
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<Stogi> "Hmmm kitbot....or 10 wheel swerve..." - Aren Hill
<lawrence1503> SimSwerve is best swerve.
<Bryan33> What about games where the front of the frame needs to be open? (2009-like)
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<XaulZan11> its easy to cut the kitbot frame to have an openings
<Bryan33> I was more concerned about stiffness sense that front frame member is pretty key.
<Stogi> add in a 1x1 tube
<Stogi> tada
<Guest 43> should rename it to SimPhonI
<IndySam> When will it be available for real phones?
<flyingcow93g> in the c channel?
<Stogi> yes
<SuperNerd256> I've learned more from the textbook for success than from my actual school textbooks.
<flyingcow93g> not an iphone
<Guest 27> You made up for it by saying "sorry" the way Canadians say it
<Guest 27> eh?
<michaelblake3481> Windows Phone 7.5
<Guest 19> What on Earth is a Blackberry? 
<Guest 83> I <3 Kos assm. instructions. Thank you 1114 for putting this out!!!
<schreiaj> Tell ya what, if it is a ball game where we need openings in the frame we will bring Karthik back on to talk about it
<flyingcow93g> grows on trees. its pretty cool. try one.
<Guest 43> I love those fruits! but i thought we were talking about phones!
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<Bryan33> blackberrys and apples
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<schreiaj> http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/Telephones/SouthWestern_Bell_Motorola_Brick_Cell_phone_web.jpg < Blackberry
<Guest 27> http://www.autumnacres.biz/web_images/blackberries430x300.jpg
<lawrence1503> And Ice Cream Sandwiches.
<Guest 19> I was being sarcastic
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<lawrence1503> bahahahah Andrew
<flyingcow93g> LOL
<Guest 43> http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=799&authuser=0&tbm=isch&tbnid=KI3zx3SCRA3qxM:&imgrefurl=http://www.pixelandmatter.c
<schreiaj> That pic courtesy of karthik's wall 
<Guest 43> lol
<michaelblake3481> AFTER ALL, didn't Microsoft donate a couple thousand Kinects?
<Guest 61> "Karthik's Homework"
<Guest 27> FIRST hosts it on their website
<SuperNerd256> I do!
<Guest 27> /heyo
<IndySam> pedantic, good word.
<Guest 27> 4 for drive
<michaelblake3481> DID I miss the BANEBOTS discussion/warning segment?
<Guest 27> 1 for manipulator
<flyingcow93g> 6=battery power theft
<Guest 27> 1 for fun
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<Guest 83> when will the recording be up?
<Meredith16> Useless design constraints. There's a discussion topic...
<schreiaj> 83, pretty much as soon as I hit to stop recording
<grimtuesday> I've decided there is a useless element to every year
<tombot> OH GOD
<Guest 83> ok cool and i can just find it on the EWCP site?
<tombot> 775s
<schreiaj> fastest way of getting casts is to subscribe in itunes
<Guest 58> You guys should put an RSS link to the talkshoe casts on your website. No iTunes on my android... http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss98466.xml
<tombot> the.... bane.. of my existence
<Baselthe2nd> "Let's use 15 motors" roughly equals "Let's direct drive CIMs," I think.
<Guest 27> Shoot in all the goals
<flyingcow93g> your bot will last half the match
<SuperNerd256> YES!
<Guest 27> 4 batteries
<Stogi> If you only direct drive with CIMs you're probably dumb
<Guest 19> Jet pack FTW
<flyingcow93g> bam
<Guest 27> let's just play with abrams tanks
<schreiaj> 58, I try to make a post for each cast on the site
<Guest 27> it's been decided
<flyingcow93g> hey, Im proud of our deadly direct drivin kicker.
<pyeung45> I agree. Why limit motors? They already limit cost and size.
<schreiaj> It allows us some flexibility should we want to post some links or descriptions
<grimtuesday> De-regulation may make better robots
<Guest 58> yea, but I can't subscribe to your sites RSS for the casts
<Guest 27> Trickle-Down Robotics
<Guest 19> 4019s robot is going to blast death metal
<schreiaj> You can subscrbe to all posts
<grimtuesday> but if you have no regulations, it becomes a race of who can spend the most money for the best components etc...
<Guest 27> probably against the rules
<Guest 58> didnt work in google Listen on my phone...
<Guest 27> the blasting
<schreiaj> http://ewcp.org/atom.xml
<michaelblake3481> Has there ever been a limit on how many pneumatic pistons?
<Guest 63> does this increase the gap between rookie teams and vet. teams?
<flyingcow93g> whats that xml for/
<grimtuesday> great cast, very informative
<SuperNerd256> YES! 
<schreiaj> that is our RSS feed for our website
<Guest 58> for whatever reason the mp3s don't get picked out of the site rss the talkshow rss works fine
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<schreiaj> there ya go then :P
<karthik> http://robotevents.com/volunteer/
<flyingcow93g> its ok, we believe in you
<karthik> http://www.simbotics.org/media/news/2012/simphone-and-kitbot-steroids-resources-released
<Guest 19> 
<schreiaj> Karthik, if you want to PM me those links I'll toss them in the cast post on our page
<michaelblake3481> XML = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML
<schreiaj> ... or I could just grep for http://
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<flyingcow93g> no, asked what it was for. that specific one.
<flyingcow93g> lol
<lawrence1503> oh my god this is best
<jwfoss> wow
<flyingcow93g> as dean talks forever
<Guest 58> +1
<thefro526> This is most awesome
<Stogi> this is best
<lawrence1503> Can I get this in writing?
<Guest 83> yes...
<pyeung45> #winning
<flyingcow93g> I think its on CD somewhere
<Guest 27> put it in the CD thread?
<flyingcow93g> or something similar
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<schreiaj> This will be in the CD thread
<karthik> Just emailed you Andrew
<Stogi> this is a new one by Jim
<schreiaj> Thanks Karthik
<jwfoss> best pre-kickoff cast ever
<Stogi> note to all teams from EWCP- please help each other out
<Stogi> that's why we do this
<flyingcow93g> LOL thats what I say every year.
<pyeung45> I would die if this was all made up on the spot
<ajones16> Nice job!
<flyingcow93g> clap
<IndySam> ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()
<flyingcow93g> clap
<flyingcow93g> clap
<Guest 58> ::clap::
<grimtuesday> clap clap clap
<Bryan33> Awesome!
<Guest 61> snaps
<kabakowski> That was beautiful.
<Baselthe2nd> Epic
<Meredith16> Coffee house snapping
<SuperNerd256> That made up for the lack of 2nd (official) game hint! THANK YOU! Loved it!
<pyeung45> encore
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<Guest 19> Looking forward to my rookie season Team 4019 FTW
<flyingcow93g> put it on a CD. audio.
<Bryan33> Quite the poet
<grimtuesday> Can I post this on our teams facebook tomorow?
<flyingcow93g> jam to that in my car
<SuperNerd256> Please post it!
<zFoss> /clap
<grimtuesday> please type it and put it on the thread
<kabakowski> i'd download audio of that.
<SuperNerd256> I'd download that.
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<Guest 43> welcome to the first family 4019
<flyingcow93g> anddddd cutoff

The troll wasn’t too big of a deal, he got kicked after one word, though it was ridiculously rude.

Back on topic: Fantastic cast! I took notes, and though it most reinforced what we’re already doing, I’m implementing some of the things I heard, most notably the decision making. We were planning on doing a vote, but I think we’re moving to consensus and convincement, unless that can not be reached, and we vote.

Great cast, as always! While the Andy Baker one was my favorite, this was by far the most informative, in my opinion. As a few others, I took notes on key strategical advice :slight_smile:

Just wanted to remind everyone that we’ll be doing our Game Reactions Cast tonight. There’s not much of a set agenda, we’ll be talking about the basics of rebound rumble, what we like and don’t like, etc. The cast should be relatively short with an ample time at the end to take questions/comments/calls from the crowd.

As always, the Cast will be live at: http://www.talkshoe.com/tc/98644

That link is incorrect, it should be http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=98466&cmd=tc

We are planning on having Gabe Salas Jr from 233 on as a special guest. Who knows, maybe he will drop a few hints about what Pink is thinking. No promises though.

Im very much looking forward to tonight’s cast!
Interested to hear the opinions on this years game, you can bet il be tuning in :slight_smile:

Possibly that 8 wheel swerve :slight_smile: