Experience promoting districts in Minnesota

FIRST General Forum
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[Sorry this post is so long, but I wanted to make sure I didn’t leave out any details.]

This past weekend I attended the 10,000 Lakes/North Star Regionals as a spectator. Based on some conversations with my friends in the state it seemed that many teams in the state were simply not aware that the district system even existed. I had previously mentioned in other threads that I would be willing to go to Minnesota to attend the Summer Robotics Series and give a seminar there about what districts are, but as we all know the teams that aren’t connected with the community and don’t know about FIRST outside of their local area often don’t attend off-season educational events like SRS. To combat this issue, my girlfriend I made the following flyer to distribute at the one place that every team consistently attends; the local regional events. As you can see, the intent of this flyer was to be mostly educational. We did get the flyer approved by a member of the MN FIRST RPC prior to the event.

Over Thursday and Friday, I went to as many teams as I could find and asked them if they have heard of the district system. I’d explain some of the differences and advantages between districts and regionals, and present the flyer to the team. I’d end with some of the issues facing Minnesota transitioning to districts; such as the jump from 4 to 14+ events, the need for more volunteers, and the fact that a transition would probably require several years of preparation before being implemented. To make sure that there weren’t several independent efforts towards the cause, I told teams that were interested that the best thing they could do was express their interest in the district system to the RPC.

The large majority of teams that I talked to had not heard of the system, and reacted very positively upon the system being explained to them. The few teams that had prior knowledge of the system were often some of the higher performing teams who more regularly compete outside of Minnesota. Some of these even mentioned that they had previously brought up the topic of districts over the past several years to the RPC. Granted, a small number of teams did express valid concerns about the system. One mentor even handed the flyer back to me and told me that the RPC was going to do whatever they wanted and not listen to little old him. However, the overall response was overwhelmingly positive.

After speaking with as many teams as I could find at both events, I decided to post the remaining flyers I had around the regional, similar to the mounds of safety flyers you see at events. On Friday afternoon, I was approached by a different member of the RPC and politely asked for a copy of the flyer. After briefly looking the flyer over, I was told that “mentors in Minnesota are not asking for districts*.”I responded with my experiences from talking to teams, how a lot didn’t know about the system and how the responses were largely positive. The RPC member then asked who I was, wrote down my name, and promptly walked away.

When I returned on Saturday morning to the event, I had noticed that all the flyers I had posted about districts had been taken down. No other flyers, which had been taped up in a nearly identical fashion, had been removed. Thinking that there might have been simply a misunderstanding, I put up the remaining flyers I had during alliance selection. By the end of the lunchtime break, most of these had been removed as well. All other flyers that teams had posted were still hanging. No member of the RPC that I had spoken with, neither before nor during the event, had expressed to me that anything about the flyer was wrong or that I was breaking any venue or event rules by putting up the flyers.

Another small thing I noticed; one of the teams I had spoken with on Thursday tweeted that they would be happy to host a district event at their school if Minnesota made the transition. Screenshots exist to prove that this tweet existed (and was retweeted at the MN FIRST account by a second team). Since then, this tweet has been deleted.

All my efforts during this regional have been to simply raise awareness about the regional system and educate Minnesota teams on what the system is. Now this is just conjecture, but based on my experiences and what I’ve heard from several other people in the state, it is pretty evident that the current MN leadership is not in favor of the district system. Given all of this, the perception that the RPC is trying to censor or silence information is not one that could be easily contested. This closed door policy isn’t representative of how anybody wants FIRST to be run. One of the biggest successes in recent years is the increased communication to the public from HQ since Frank took over, and I think that regional organizations can follow the example. After all, the priority is to give teams and students in the program the most inspiring experience possible.

*(Side note: she specifically cited a mentor roundtable that had taken place on Thursday. I later spoke to a mentor who had attended this roundtable over Facebook who said only about 15 mentors were present and the group was rather split on districts. If anyone else was present at this to give a first hand account of what happened, please reply.)

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The Minnesota Regional Planning Committee and the key volunteers in Minnesota want the best for the teams in the state. They wouldn’t volunteer so much if they didn’t. This thread has some serious potential to get put of hand. Please let’s keep the conversation productive and positive. Remember, we are all working towards the same goals.

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The mentors and alumni in Minnesota want the best for the teams in the state. They wouldn’t volunteer so much if they didn’t. This thread has some serious potential to get out of hand. Please let’s keep the conversation productive and positive. Remember, we are all working towards the same goals.

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I’d like to thank Rahul for posting one of the most professional threads about this topic and would love to see this conversation continue further.

Minnesota RPC please take notes.

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I am not going to weigh in on this thread but to provide a little insight:

The ‘District Discussion’ flyers were posted throughout the events - this is true. However, there were other infographic flyers that were placed that were VERY misleading (i.e. ‘Woodie Flowers Meet and Greet’) and did not have anything to do with the MPLS Regionals. The only flyers that were left up were ones that were placed by teams competing and were in the spirit of ‘safety’ (and there were not many flyers of this nature).

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What could motivate the RPC to reject the district model besides the lack of volunteers and extra work?

Coming from an international team means that we’ve never really understood the disadvantages of the district model besides simply not being able to participate in the region (happened to us with FiM in 2009), but from what I’ve been reading on the forums, districts has a huge potential for everybody involved.

For example, when people and mentors talk about FIRST Districts in California, it’s scary to consider the possibility of being unable to continue participating in the Los Angeles regional, but the benefits that the district model would bring for such a dense region as California (whether it be SoCal or not) seem to be huge. The cost per qual match presented here also seem to be quite convincing for all the extra effort I assume must go into a district system.

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I was at the mentor roundtable and knowing what you and Jessica were doing with the flyers, I was surprised not to see you there. I can give a first hand account of the meeting but it would have been much more productive if you guys had attended. I agree that an education, for everyone, and every team is needed. I have no problem with the flyer or the fact that you distributed it. But I spent an hour and half talking with Mark Lawrence (half hour one on one, about this topic and these threads specifically). There are some SERIOUS challenges ahead for MN if/when we transition to a district model. No one that I spoke to was against it, but the amount of volunteers is still the sticking point. 5-6 times the number of volunteers are required for a district model. Not to mention key volunteers that we currently “have no bench” of. Think if yoshi was one of the volunteers that got sick this weekend (apparently 4 had to cancel because they got the flu). We would have been scrambling to find someone who can emcee! Not an easy roll to fill in.
So, contact the volunteer coordinator, have your mentors contact her and sign up to shadow someone at MSHSL State. Volunteer for next year’s regionals, even if you get a task like cuing or field reset, work your way up through the ranks to be a key volunteer. That’s what I’m going to do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I agree that the only way to make this happen for Minnesota is for those of us who want this system to volunteer so we have the people to make it happen. I, as a graduating senior, will volunteer to help make this happen in the year’s to come because I think it is in the best interest of Minnesota and its wonderful FRC teams.

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There are a lot of behind the scene changes as well when an area moves to the district system. They operate much more autonomously from HQ than when running regional events. It’s definitely several times more work for an area to run districts rather than regionals, but the benefits come in the extra playtime for teams and the decreased cost to run the event.

I actually didn’t know the mentor roundtable was taking place, as I was just attending the event as a spectator and wasn’t receiving the emails that other mentors were prior to the event. Jess was in class on Thursday so she couldn’t attend either.

Part of what I was telling teams when I went pit-to-pit was that this is going to be a several year process for Minnesota. I definitely didn’t want to give a false impression to teams that this was something that could happen overnight. Manpower was one of the biggest issues I highlighted, both in terms of volunteers and event management. I figured that the RPC was the best group to judge how teams could help contribute to the effort, which is why I didn’t want to plant seeds of a separate effort towards districts from what the RPC is already attempting.

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Sorry if this was made clear somewhere and I missed it.

Do you mentor a team in Minnesota?

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Not full time as I live in Indiana. I help 2705 remotely, who’s lead mentor is my S/O. I’ve also previously presented at some Minnesota offseason educational events.

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I’ll elaborate on some of the behind the scenes changes, for the benefit of those who don’t know (and are part of today’s lucky ten thousand!).

The basic plan goes something like this…

  1. Start a company (most likely a 501(3)(c)) to run your district. This can either be a continuation of an existing FIRST in , or some new entity. For example, Virginia FIRST took on responsibility for the the Chesapeake District, while New England started their own entity.
  2. Find people to work at said company to do all the things on this list.
  3. Sign a Memorandum of Understanding with FIRST HQ so your company can operate FRC events on their behalf.
  4. Start planning events… Let’s say 12 district events, which nicely works out to 2 events/week for 6 weeks (whatever the number ends up being, there needs to be enough spots for each team to be guaranteed two events each). Plus a district championship, so 13 events total. So, x13…

  • You need a venue

  • You need to get the field to/from the venue

  • You need a full crew of volunteers and to feed them for a weekend.

  • You need an A/V setup

  • You’ll probably need a generator, since most high schools can’t meet the power requirements for the pits

  • All the media the goes along with an event (webcast, website, social accounts, etc.)

  • You’ll need people to plan/run the event. With regionals, FIRST works with an event management company to do a lot of the legwork. In districts, you’ll have to do it on your own.

  • Read the District Planning Guide and do all the things it says.

  • Find money/sponsorship to pay for all of the above

  1. 13 events means you’ll need two fields. So you’ll have to purchase two fields at about $25,000 each, plus two sets of road cases to keep the fields in. You’ll also need a place to store them when not in use.

I’m sure I’m missing stuff, but as you can see, it’s a pretty substantial undertaking. This post/thread is a great resource as well.

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I assume this was directed at OP… Who I’ve never actually met but I know his S/O well, and she’s a splendid person, and an asset to FIRST, her team and the robotics community.

However, I realized I didn’t take credit for my role, so in case anyone is wondering who I am (and is not the mobile app, like me and not getting bio info):

Ian Goodson
Lead Mentor
Team 2502
Talon Robotics
Eden Prairie, MN
[email protected]

I am not affiliated with the RPC (yet) and I am a 9 year mentor of 2502.

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This is an interesting thing to think about when switching from Regionals to Districts.

Yes, in theory, there is a decreased cost to running individual district events. But when switching from four Regionals (in three venues) to 12-14 district events, I have to think that the cost actually would increase for an area.

And it’s important to note that in the Regional system, FIRST HQ takes on the financial risk of the events, but in the District system, the local non-profit organization takes on the financial risk.

While it’s easy to say that you get more plays for your money in the distric system, and events are cheaper, it’s minimizing the issue at hand.

If one district event costs $15,000 (and that’s on the waaaayyyyy cheap side) and you have 12 events, you’re looking at minimum of $180,000. And like I said, that’s on the WAY cheap side. Most district events are going to be closer to the $20,000-$30,000 range. That’s a huge financial risk for one local area to take upon themselves.

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Should be on the top of the list I think.

Others have said this repeatedly.

Carolyn, I count the Minneapolis events as basically the same venue as both are on the U of M campus across the street from each other. When I work those events I spend equal time on both sides of the street as do many of the volunteers and the RPC.

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Form 501c3, quit job, raise $500,000 for the first year and ~$300,000 for each following year… Seems doable… Pretty sure my wife would veto one of those steps.

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You’re forgetting:

Train 5x more (probably under-estimating this number) the amount of volunteers there currently are.

IndianaFIRST has approximately 250-300 unique volunteers (including judges) for four events. And we have not quite achieved our 2018 goal of Key Volunteers only having to work two events per official competition season.

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As I said in an earlier post… We are well aware of the volunteer need. That is the main stumbling block at the moment. I’ve talked to many mentors and teams who are willing to step up and volunteer, myself included.

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It’s worth noting that you can in fact have different people working on and worrying about different things. It’s not unreasonable to bring in new people to work on new issues that need to be resolved in a future transition to districts.

I’m really happy that Jess and Rahul talked to so many teams at the event, because the first step in transitioning to districts is convincing people that it needs to happen. If it’s just some vocal minority yapping on Chief Delphi, of course nothing is going to happen.

Once we have enough teams and people who believe that districts is the correct path forward, I think it will be much easier to find all the resources and people necessary to make the transition. Part of getting to that point is education, part of that point is developing and communicating a plan. I commend Jess and Rahul on getting started on the education part, but without the cooperation of the RPC it will be very, very difficult to make meaningful progress on the plan part.

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Do the $5000 registration fees that teams pay go towards that figure? Or would the non-profit running the district have to shoulder that cost by themselves?