I’ve been interested in turret’s, especially after last year’s game. Team 1710 has never attempted a turret in the past, however, it is something we are looking forward to pursue in the near future. In terms of COTS parts, what is the best turret kit available on the market? I have researched a few, and the Armabot turret seems really optimal for our use. However, it only uses a NEO 550 or a 775 motor, which we feel isn’t the most optimal. Is there a better option or a way to convert to a Falcon 500 or a regular NEO?
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Why? Do you have any calculations or anything other than a feeling to back this up? Not saying those motors are or aren’t sufficient, but for an engineering application I suggest doing some rough engineering calculations before deciding to pass on an option like this.
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The neo550 on our turret last year was the one of the only neo550s we didn’t come close to burning out
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As someone who has used the Armabot turret multiple times before I think depending on what you’re trying to do.
You might want to consider the GreyT turret GreyT Turret (11" ID) – WestCoast Products
The Armabot one is big and heavy, and it uses a gearbox that honestly you’d be better off completely replacing with a custom plate, pulley and planetary. The encoder solution provided with it is extremely unsatisfactory.
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We’ve used 775 motors in the past, which doesn’t compare to using a NEO or Falcon. The biggest problem with the REV NEO/NEO 550 is the Spark Max, and how it takes up space and uses a not-so-optimal cable to connect to the motor. Another thing is that the 550 is roughly 2 times slower compared to the 775 (in terms of degrees per second), and at high levels of play, that makes a huge difference. We aren’t going to eliminate it as an option, however, we would prefer to use something else instead.
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These motors do have different specs, but that doesn’t make one inherently better than the other. It depends on the use case and how much power/speed/torque is needed for the application. Turning a turret is a pretty low power application, and thus a good place to save weight by using a smaller motor. I know Falcons are marketed as “the only motor you’ll ever need”, but that doesn’t mean other motors aren’t a better choice in certain contexts.
That’s a fair assessment of one trade-off of using a NEO or NEO 550. Have you considered the things you might gain for the tradeoff? E.g., weight, cost, power consumption. Just because one aspect of a motor has a drawback doesn’t make the other option immediately the right choice.
Does it? Do you have a set of requirements driven by game strategy/robot goals that includes a specification for how fast the turret needs to turn? If not, you can’t really make a determination about if it makes a difference. Looking at the product page, it looks like the Armabot turret spins 243 deg/s with a 775, and 143 deg/s with a 550. What do those speeds mean for your bot? Do you know 143 deg/s won’t be fast enough?
Certainly exploring your options, comparing currently available COTSCommercial, off-the-shelf options, and researching custom solutions from other teams is a great starting point in the design process. But again, I would urge you to develop a set of requirements before you start selecting/designing a solution, so you know what tradeoffs you’re making and how they will play into your final product. That’s what engineering is all about.
As John mentioned, the other alternative is the GreyT turret available at WCPWest Coast Products. I think AndyMark used to carry one, but it appears to be discontinued (or I’m crazy and it never existed).
I hope this doesn’t come off as too harsh. I’m not trying to tell you the Armabot is or isn’t a good option, or that the 775 or 550 or Falcon is the best motor for the job, or anything else. It just appears to me that you’re making engineering decisions based on vibes rather than calculations. That can be somewhat effective, especially if you have more experience than technical engineering knowledge, but given the forum for this discussion I’m trying to provide the tools for a more engineering-based approach which will give better and more consistent results in the long run.
Please feel free to shoot me a DM if you’d like me to go further in-depth into how I would put together a set of requirements for a turret and use those requirements to make a decision between COTSCommercial, off-the-shelf options or custom designs and I’d be happy to provide more help.
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No worries! I appreciate the help! This project is meant to be an off-season/preseason one, which doesn’t have too many requirements. I just want our team to have some experience with a turret before we end up using one sometime. We don’t favor Falcon’s (for certain reasons), however, they are sometimes the better motor for the application. Additionally, we have run into issues with the NEO cable to the Spark Max, and our electrical team isn’t a large fan. There is certainly more research to be done, and I appreciate the advice!
Given the Falcon QC, or lack thereof, the use cases where a Falcon is de facto the better motor are nil at the moment. If the Falcon actually GOT QC’d, it’s probably OK, unless something breaks. If it didn’t, rebuild and hope it still works. And this statement is void once QC’d Falcons aren’t unobtanium…
Anyways. My team ran a NEO550 turret (custom) for 2022, no issues. I would also possibly look at a brushed motor (775Pro or BAG)–if power is a concern, there’s always the Venom, which has CIMChiaphua Industrial Motor power, Falcon packaging (except longer).
As a question, is there a particular reason you’re going for COTSCommercial, off-the-shelf? I would say that it’s almost easier to build your own turret, particularly if you have a CNC router or resources to get plate lasercut or waterjet.
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It was a 775 Pro on that turret, not that it really matters. IIRC that was chosen for better versaplanetary compatability over a full size neo. Neo 550 ended up on the intake.
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We do have an in-house CNC Router, however, we don’t believe we have the ability to manufacture a turret. Our CNC doesn’t cut perfect circles (cuts ellipses), which would be a large issue. Additionally, manufacturing the gear might be difficult as well. In that case, we prefer just simply buying one and possibly modifying it.
I think in 2022 1706 used the Armabot turret and made a custom gearbox to use a different motor but I can’t remember for sure or which motor. @Emerson1706 @XaulZan11
In 2022 we (2767) ran a standard brushed 550 on the turrets. Loop was tuned pretty hot (as usual). I can’t recall ratios on gearboxes off the top of my head, but I am sure they were reasonable. The biggest issue we ran into was motor overheating when we were trying to constantly track the high goal. Swapping to a Falcon solved this (although incredibly overkill in terms of power).
OP, just something to consider if you want fast continual tracking in your future.
As far as the turret ring, we quite liked the large plastic (steel ball) bearings.from McMaster, backed up with sheet metal to for the turret. There was a 3D printed large bull gear, which was later swapped for a pulley and belt.
We copied the greyt turret but made a few packaging changes for 2022. It worked fantastically. It uses a neo 550 for directional.
You can see how quickly the turret snaps to target in this video. I don’t know how you would go (or even WANT to go) faster than this.
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We implemented a custom gearbox after worlds last year making use of a NEO geared 58.2:1 This increased the speed significantly over the 775 pro version.
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This combination of McMaster bearing and 3D printed HTD pulley mechanically worked pretty well for us in 2022 and was easy enough to assemble -
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Similar to these, I’ve had good experience buying cheap amazon turntable bearings as well, then printing or routing out a custom giant gear or sprocket. They come in several sizes, which is useful.
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What did you guys 3D print your gear out of? Did it ever get damaged?
Duramic PLA+ and nope, was fine all season.
Sorry to bother you once again. Do you have a picture of the turret on the robot itself? I’d like to see how it was mounted.
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