Other than the 2 additional CIM’s are you allowed any other motors that are not provided in the Kit of Parts?
The rules section 8.3.7 Motors & Actuators tells what you can and cannot use…I’ll let the rule book explain it…
We have the same question. We intended to use 4 Banebot motors, but after reading the rules a little closer, it looks like this would not be allowed.
-Chip Tucker
That’s how I undestand it too. The only additional motors are two CIMS, and however many small servos you want.
no what the rules say is that you can only use 4 of the cim and then after that you can do whatever you want. you can have 8 banebot and it wouldnt matter.
Please read <R52> and <R51> in that order. If you show up to competition with those 8 banebots motors, the first inspector will make you remove them. He’ll be backed up by the other inspectors and the game manual.
Motors specifically permitted on 2009 FRC ROBOTS include:
A. All motors, actuators, and servos provided in the 2009 Kit Of Parts,
B. An unlimited number of COTS servos with a maximum output torque of 55 oz-in and maximum rotational speed of 100 rpm at 6 Vdc (e.g. HITEC model HS-322HD or HS-325HB servos, as provided in the Kit Of Parts),
C. An unlimited number of FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) servos (HITEC HS-475HB servos),
D. One or two additional 2-1/2” CIM motors (part #FR801-001 and/or M4-R0062-12) in addition to those provided in the Kit Of Parts. This means that up to four, and no more, 2-1/2” CIM motors can be used on the ROBOT.
ok didnt see the in addition to part. thanks for the info.
So, this may seem redundant, if I understand you guys correctly, but…
we receive 2 globe motors, and are wondering if it is possible to use one more. Take in regard, we are not planning on using them for drive, but for “picking up” balls.
nope, not allowed sorry (read above posted rules)
It doesn’t matter what you want to use them for. You may use the motors that came in the KOP plus 2 CIMs and unlimited servos that meet the spec listed.
2 Globes came in the KOP so 2 Globes is what you are allowed to use.
Also consider that you can use servos that are designed for continuous rotation as long as they comply with the max speed and torque specs in the manual. Not exactly high power output (Power = torque * rotational speed =100 rpm * 55 oz-in = 10.5 rad/sec * 0.39 Nm = 4.1 Watts) but it could be useful work.
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R174-CONT-RO-SERVO.html
The above servo MAY be sufficient (I didn’t find it’s max speed at 6V spec).
This has not been made really clear to teams yet but if you use servos other than a Hitec HS-322HD or Vex servo, your inspector will probably ask to see a datasheet for confirming max speed and torque. Please bring datasheets or at least load them onto a computer for inspectors to check.
Russ
I was just reading the manual, and according to <R50>, it states “Motors specifically permitted on 2009 FRC ROBOTS include:
A. All motors, actuators, and servos provided in the 2009 Kit Of Parts,
B. An unlimited number of COTS servos with a maximum output torque of 55 oz-in and maximum rotational speed of 100 rpm at 6 Vdc (e.g. HITEC model HS-322HD or HS-325HB servos, as provided in the Kit Of Parts),
C. An unlimited number of FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) servos (HITEC HS-475HB servos),
D. One or two additional 2-1/2” CIM motors (part #FR801-001 and/or M4-R0062-12) in addition to those provided in the Kit Of Parts. This means that up to four, and no more, 2-1/2” CIM motors can be used on the ROBOT.
E. COTS motors used as one-to-one replacements (i.e. identical vendor and part number) for motors, actuators and servos provided in the 2009 Kit Of Parts that may have failed or become inoperable.”
Then, If you read <R51>, I realized that there is a typo.
<R51> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use on the ROBOT include:
A. Electric motors and/or servos different from, or in addition to, those in the Kit Of Parts, with the exception of those specifically permitted by Rule <R51>.
B. Electric solenoid actuators (note: electric solenoid actuators are NOT the same as pneumatic solenoid valves – the latter are permitted, the former are not). The Underlined area should read “with the exception of those specifically permitted by Rule <R50>.” Rule <R50> allows the use of Motors in the 2009 KoP, which include the motors I asked about earlier. Now, granted it is debatable, but it DOES seem to allow use of, unless that is the “or in addition to” part.
Cameron,
There is no typo. The first rule you quoted regarding permitted motors is <R51>. The second rule you quoted regarding prohibited items is <R52>.
The “addition to” clause means exactly what you think it does, it limits the motors provided in the KOP to the number provided in the KOP with the exceptions being CIMs, servos, and one-to-one replacements with identical models as identified in <R50>.
So are we allowed to have 4 window motors???
No. You are allowed as many window motors as came in the KOP.
<R52> reads in part: “Items specifically PROHIBITED from use on the ROBOT include:
A. Electric motors and/or servos different from, or in addition to, those in the Kit Of Parts, with the exception of those specifically permitted by Rule <R51>.”
reads: “Motors specifically permitted on 2009 FRC ROBOTS include:
A. All motors, actuators, and servos provided in the 2009 Kit Of Parts,
B. An unlimited number of COTS servos with a maximum output torque of 55 oz-in and maximum rotational speed of 100 rpm at 6 Vdc (e.g. HITEC model HS-322HD or HS-325HB servos, as provided in the Kit Of Parts),
C. An unlimited number of FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) servos (HITEC HS-475HB servos),
D. One or two additional 2-1/2” CIM motors (part #FR801-001 and/or M4-R0062-12) in addition to those provided in the Kit Of Parts. This means that up to four, and no more, 2-1/2” CIM motors can be used on the ROBOT.”
I don’t see window motors mentioned anywhere in <R51>. Do you?
You are allowed to have up to the number of window motors provided in the 2009 KOP on your robot.
This would be 1 Left-hand (PN: 262100-3040) and 1 Right-hand (PN: 262100-3030) Nippon-Denso window motor as shown at the top of page 13 of the KOP checklist. The Keyang motor is also sometimes referred to as a window motor (I believe it is actually from a seat) and this year one is allowed (PN: 16631023) as shown on the bottom of page 14 of the same document.
You may only add 2 CIM motors and unlimited servos (that meet spec in ) to the motors that came in the kit. The only other allowed motors are to REPLACE motors that came in the kit, but broke.
Okay, thank you for the answer. But next time, a simple “no” would have suffice?
To be honest, a simple no would not really suffice. If either Eric or I had given a simple no, odds are either you or someone else would ask a question tomorrow or a week from now or whenever about whether or not they could use 5 FP motors or 3 Banebots RS545 motors or something. By providing a bit of an explanation it is possible we are answering a question that has not yet been asked in addition to giving you an understanding of where our answer came from.
Not every answer posted on Chief Delphi is correct and none of them are official so citing rules and reasoning in posts allows others to “check our work”, so to speak.
Yeah, your right. Sorry 
was just kinda over all pissed that we couldn’t use 4 windows motors. Well thanks for your answers. Because it would have stunk to have totally redesign our robot with only one week left!