FAHA: Dealing with Discipline

FIRST General Forum
#1

All teams face disciplinary issues. Sometimes they range from mentors to students. How can you help this team?

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What can a student do when there are people on their team who are majorly disruptive or negative influences, yet no one will do anything? I am not just talking about disliking someone, or a slightly obnoxious student, I’m talking about serious disciplinary issues. I’m on a kind of small team that is not directly affiliated with a school currently, so there seems to be a lot of hesitancy to reprimand people out of fear of losing them, but I think with some people on the team it is really, really, necessary on occasion.

One of the problem people on my team is one of our mentors – a mentor that is fondly thought of by many that does completely inappropriate things around and to students. I personally don’t see how he is even allowed around students at this point. This mentor has yelled at students at least three times in my presence, as well as swearing several students out in unnecessarily nasty ways. One of my friends was fairly close to quitting the team because of this. There have been other mentors around during much of this (One of the mentors that’s seen this happening is currently head mentor). However many people seem to ignore this and allow him to continue this behavior, fearing that if they reprimand him for it he’ll run away and stop helping the team. I understand that this mentor may be helpful to the team (He has experience with FIRST that no one else on the team does), but I can not stand seeing him hurt my team mates in the way he does. The way he treats some of the students is down-right abusive, and I don’t know how to deal with the situation or ever how to begin to address it so that these types of things don’t happen anymore.

In a similar, yet less vital, vein, we also have a student that has done nothing in his time in robotics. He is not just a zero on the ‘work scale’; he is a negative to others. When he is supposed to be working he goes around to others and distracts them, and when a mentor tells him to do something he usually wanders off and ignores the instructions. During Regionals he bullied another student and only received a warning and a room change for it, which is below the minimum punishment required for bullying where we are. Occasionally during meetings (which, in the off season, he goes to less often) we discuss requirements to be on the team, and even though we never bring up his name everyone seems to know who we’re talking about when we start talking about how to properly address students who don’t work. The head mentor seems convinced that I am attempting to get this student kicked off of the team, and I was thinly accused of only trying to make stricter requirements for this type of thing because this student was not in my ‘inner circle of friends’. I am insulted and hurt that the head mentor thinks I’m vain enough to try to kick someone out just because I don’t like them. I want him reprimanded when he is distracting others on the team, and I want him properly punished when he does things that are destructive to the team and the members of the team. I don’t care if I like someone or not, if they’re doing something they shouldn’t be doing they, well, SHOULDN’T BE DOING IT.

When I tell my non-robotics friends about these things, they always question why I stay on the team. ‘If it’s really so bad, why don’t you quit.’ Unfortunately I love my team. It’s been one of the most important things in my life for a while, so I can’t just leave everyone on the team to deal with these people. I know that the problem mentor has driven me to tears once (this may just be because I cry particularly easy, though), and has really hurt other members. I can’t stand seeing my team mates treated like this. What can I do to improve conditions on the team? What do other teams do to discipline not just students who are disruptive, but mentors also? Is there any hope in even trying to change things?

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#2

One the first issue (with the problematic mentor):

Have you or anyone else ever talked to this person about the way he was communicating with others? I find that many mentors (definitely including myself!) sometime forget that we aren’t dealing with grown adult professionals when we work with our students (and my students should take that as a compliment!). In the professional world, people sometimes communicate in a way that can seem blunt or cruel. Swearing sometimes (let’s be honest - frequently) happens in engineering/manufacturing environments - from tiny job shops to fortune 500 companies. It’s unfortunate, but professionals eventually get thick skin and learn not to take things personally.

A good team leader sometimes needs to remind even the best mentors that we are dealing with high school students here :smiley: The message might be even more effective coming from a student.

On the second issue:

Every FIRST team has to deal with this from time to time. There are kids who have honest-to-goodness interest in robotics, but just can’t seem to prevent themselves from doing zilch and making others fall into the same habit. There are other students who seem to think robotics is a social club. Putting hard requirements on attendance necessary to travel with the team to competition (and actually enforcing them) goes a long way towards discouraging this. Moreover, good mentors know when you are there but not working. But it sounds like neither the former idea nor the latter ability is something embraced by your mentor.

Have you considered addressing this student during a work session, with your teammates present? Simply make it be known that you are here to do a job, and that this person needs to do his part or go home. Don’t be rude and don’t yell. But be serious. I have found that when other students call our those who are detrimental to the team, it is far more successful than when an adult does it.

#3

This could be my team.

For the Mentor thing, Jared’s advice is spot-on. Talk to the mentor privately, perhaps you and another mentor if you feel threatened or uneasy, and describe a SPECIFIC incident and HOW it made YOU FEEL. Then ask if they might rein it in for the future.

For the student thing, it gets more difficult, particularly if mentors are unwilling or unable to explain to the student what the team expectations are. But again, Jared’s suggestions are excellent - I think I’m going to follow them myself when “our student” returns in the fall.

#4

I think both problems call for similar action to begin with.

Quietly find out whether other students truly feel about the “problem mentor” the way you do. Ask them if they would support your position if asked about it by an adult, and let them know you intend to approach the mentor and tell him that his behavior is causing problems. If you can be confident that your teammates won’t leave you looking like a solitary rogue, go ahead and tell the mentor of your concerns. Don’t let it turn into an offense/defense situation; just make your point known and don’t get drawn into a shouting match.

Quietly find out whether other mentors truly feel about the “problem student” the way you do. Ask them if they would support your position if asked about it by a student, and let them know you intend to approach the student and tell him that his behavior is causing problems. If you can be confident that your teammates won’t leave you looking like a solitary rogue, go ahead and tell the student of your concerns. Don’t let it turn into an offense/defense situation; just make your point known and don’t get drawn into a shouting match.

Now everyone will have the same context, and you can try to work things out from there. Hopefully the person can change his problematic behavior once he has it pointed out calmly. But if the person doesn’t agree that he is a problem, while others around him do, then you might have to be prepared to ask that person to leave for the good of the team.

#5

Teams can and should set policies for behavior by both mentors and students.

Our team has application forms for mentors and students to be submitted every year.

The mentor application includes a signed “mentor code of conduct” which not only helps remind the mentor of the age group in which he is immersed, but also satisfies an awareness training requirement for our team’s NPO insurance policy.

The student application includes a “contract” signed by students and parents. The contract makes it clear that FIRST is not a substitute for school and a grade requirement is in effect for attending competitions. Within the terms of the contract, students are evaluated for productivity and can be asked to leave the team if they do not contribute. Much of our student contract is adopted from handbooks from teams like “Wings of Fire”](http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2417) and TechnoKats.

A common thread between our “code of conduct” and “student contract” is respect among team members. That doesn’t mean friction never exists or people don’t lose their cool. We just don’t want team mates to hurt each other. “Shake hands and make up”, “agree to disagree,” or “keep them apart” are all options when dealing with conflict.

You ask, “What can I do to improve conditions for our team?” That question suggests what you really want to do is to help lead the team. A discussion with the lead mentor about you helping the team by organizing and tracking students’ efforts is a start. Expressing your concerns to the lead mentor about hurtful actions of the “valued” mentor might prompt some changes, too.

Something to consider about mentors (as Jared341 suggests), is being imbedded in a “day-job” where performance expectations are high can make a person really impatient with under-performers. Talented, dedicated people can become frank, “hard-headed” and darn near vicious when frustrated. Part of becoming “thick-skinned” is learning how to dish it out as well as take it. Sometimes, giving one another a hard time is a like a game. That sort of thing happens a lot - even where Dave’s “Mars Cars” are built!

Good luck and realize that you’re getting acquainted with the real world. Don’t let it get you down.

#6

I read this through and had no clue how to help with either issue. Admittedly, I would have been in as much of a bind as you with no clue what to do. Then I read Jared’s response. It seemed just about perfect. I’d do exactly what he said. Also, I have to disagree with Alan’s advice on this one. You’ve already been accused of wanting rid of the student because he isn’t in your “group”. If you form a support group against him, you’d be proving their point. I think in that case approaching the problem as an individual is much more appropriate. It is ok to approach the student when others are around(as Jared suggested) but I wouldn’t approach it as a group. I would also avoid talking about the mentor behind his back with other students. If you find it necessary, be prepared for some yelling. Nobody likes being talked about behind their back. If the mentor is as verbally abusive as you’ve said, he will likely respond to such with plenty of yelling. And assume he will know. People have a habit of chatting about things and it will somehow work around to him.

Jason

#7

There is one thing that I might add to Jared’s advice.

When you talk with (not to, with) the mentor, have a parent (maybe not yours), or more than one, in the area. They don’t have to say anything, they don’t have to get involved (it’s probably better if they don’t), they just need to observe what happens. In fact, it might be a good idea to have other mentors and students in the area doing something (refitting the robot for an offseason, working on PR, whatever needs doing) just to make sure that if the parent does start getting involved, separation can be achieved quickly, so nobody gets hurt.

Having a rather annoyed parent can really put the pressure on the mentors who just stand there now to intervene in the future.

#8

I think it’s a good practice to make the team’s expectations for members and code of conduct clear to everyone starting from the beginning of each season. If everyone is aware of these policies and they are enforced fairly and consistently, it should help to eliminate any gray area in making decisions about and disciplining students who act inappropriately and/or aren’t putting in their fair share of work. For example, my team has a student handbook which is passed out at the beginning of each year - it includes information about the team structure, how the team runs and how the seasons work, but it also discusses the code of conduct and team member expectations. Students have to sign off that they have read the handbook and agree to abide by the rules in order to be considered members of the team. An example of expectations is that students must have a certain attendance rate in order to attend travel competitions. It’s hard to be subjective when the rules have been explained to everyone at the beginning of the season. I’d suggest that your team think about setting up some sort of policies like these about behavior and expectations that everyone is informed of - it should help to eliminate future problems.

A mentor handbook is also a good idea - it will help to remind everyone of appropriate behavior and expectations for these adult role models on your team. For now, you should take the mentor aside and have a private conversation about your concerns. They might not have even realized that they were making people uncomfortable, which, while it doesn’t excuse their behavior, will make them aware of the problem and help them begin to resolve it. Issues with both student and mentor conduct shouldn’t be handled in a finger-pointing, name-calling manner - general discussions about expectations for the team and private conversations with people who are causing issues should be much more effective in solving them.