FAHA: Leader or Troublemaker?

FIRST General Forum
1

**There is a line between being a leader and being the “know it all” controlling type who feels they need to be involved in everything. This particular FIRST-a-holic is in need of determining how to approach a tricky situation with such a team mate. What thoughts, advice, experiences and wisdom can you offer?

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On my team we all get along very well. Whenever new recruits join, we welcome them with open-arms. Training and teaching as needed. This past season one of our recruits was previously part of an FLL team, which in most instances could be an advantage; however, it seems as though this case causes some dissension amongst the team. This is not necessarily a direct result of FLL, but the student acts as though this puts him/her at an advantage over other members.

The student is always looking to be involved, which is excellent for someone only having been in the FRC program for two years; but does not always contribute to the bettering of the team. He/She continually pushes away peer correction from fellow students, arguing he/she “already knows.” However, in the case of mentor correction, he/she puts-off an image of eagerness to learn more.

The mentors see this student as one who is a positive team player, but several fellow students see him/her as a hindrance to the learning process of everyone else.

Much of this has been taken care of. Now going into the second year for this student, there is a level of understanding found amongst students that no one person is better that another, but experience and expertise in an area should be respected.

The sole problem many students see in this student, is that he/she feels the need to be in charge and often over-powers others around him/her. Last year, as a first year student, he/she even ventured into running for the position of Team Captain; only after two meetings. He/She continually assumes the role of leader at competitions and stops at nothing to be sure that he/she is the front-runner for the team. Is this a problem? I have mixed feelings. Some people are naturally gifted to be leaders; but in order to be a good leader, you must earn a level of respect from your peers. I don’t feel that you can earn this amount of respect over the course of one year, or two for that matter.

My thoughts: In the case of a robotics team, the Team Captain, the one who leads the team should have a certain amount of knowledge and experience as well. He/She should be able to answer questions, teach peers, etc. in order to gain respect as well as push the team in a positive direction. A leader shouldn’t ask of others what he/she is unwilling to do. And if you don’t know how to do it, you shouldn’t be willing to do it, because that would be counterproductive. This is not to say that in order to be team captain or any other leadership position, that you first must know every little detail of everything, but you should have a working knowledge of how things work. This does not come after a year of being on a team.

So, are there any “know-it-all”, over-controlling students on your team? How do you deal with it? How does it hinder the growth (in numbers and in knowledge) of your team? Is this a problem just on my team, am I just being finicky? What are your thoughts on the issue?

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2

If the only problem with the student is that he/she is continually trying to be a leader, and there is a good chance that the other students won’t go with that, then you have a delicate situation. On the one hand, deny the student what they want. On the other, risk the team not accepting the leadership.

I would suggest sitting down with the entire team before the season, if possible. Certainly, have a team meeting before captains are chosen. Explain what leadership is. You don’t want to direct this specifically at the one student, but rather to the entire team, including mentors. One thing to particularly point out is that you can’t lead if others won’t follow you.

To that end, what is leadership? It means responsibility, knowledge, and respect, combined with the ability to get others to do what you see as best for the group you lead. Yes, there are benefits. However, those should be secondary. Many see the benefits and not the dangers. (The Sword of Damocles, an ancient Greek myth, is an example of that…)

Responsibility means that you have to be able to take the blame as well as the credit. So many times, responsibility is only claimed for good things and is denied for things going wrong. Knowledge is knowing what needs to be done, often how to do it, and always being ready to learn.

Respect is the most valuable. One needs to respect others and gain their respect to lead them. Without respect (with which the student apparently has had issues, at least with regard to the other students), there can be no trust, and therefore no followers for the leader.

I have had no issues with this on my team, but in another group, we had literally just gotten some people in. One of them was elected to lead the entire group, and he turned out all right. Some of us were annoyed, because we’d been around for a little while. We got over it.

One other thing you could do, in regards to this particular student, would be to talk with him/her one-to-one. Find out why he/she wants to be the leader so badly. It might be that he/she simply wants another position for college applications. Or it might be that he/she doesn’t like the way the team is currently run and wants to change that. Or maybe he/she just wants to be “the boss” of the team. Each reason has a different method for dealing with issues that may be caused. If you find out why the student wants to be the leader so badly, the team can help the student understand why he/she can’t be the leader at this time, or help him/her to become a leader.

3

When I was exploring options for high schools I was split between the Engineering Academy at East Lake High School and Electrical Engineering at Dunedin High School. I shadowed at DHS and found that the kids were great, the teacher was great, EE classes were great, but they were very strong on Scottish culture, which was one of the reasons I went to ELHS, along with the option for college credit and the prominent robotics team (I wouldn’t be posting this if I went to DHS). Although that is a bit off topic, the EE teacher at DHS gave me a copy of a software called Get Wired. Over the summer this was my bible, I read it, knew it, and I became very experienced in the electronic aspects of building a house. Now I am on the electrical sub team for team 79. I do not feel that I would have succeeded as much as I did if not for the time I devoted to this software, So although I never was enrolled in DHS, I learned one of my favorate and most influential talent from their teacher. I came into the team with previous information that helped me a lot.

But I knew how to wire a house, not a robot, I never heard of a spike, victor or IFI controller (or CRIO for that matter). I was given a head start so that during preseason, the electrical sub team leader, Gallo, could build upon what I had and propel me to the level that I am at.

In conclusion, I feel that being in FLL can propel him to a higher level than what a normal freshman is, but he is no expert. Sit him down and knock down his ego to the level of a freshman and explain that that action will not be tolerated. Do not put him in a big position nor let him take it. I came in to a meeting, sat down and found that this guy one year above me could teach me a lot if I let him, so I did. I am not one to be humble but it helped me and it will help your guy.

4

Often students coming from FLL have exhibited these traits. In younger children dominant personalities often take over teams. It is a wise mentor who recognizes these children and nurtures them to become strong team players. A mentor could take this student on the side and explain how he is perceived by others and recommend a few steps he can take to improve things. As we all know a leader needs training and a wise leader knows when to listen and when to talk. His mentor might also point out how valuable he could be if he assisted rather than leading. Help him to understand the joy of watching others learn what he already knows.

5

A few thoughts and ideas…

(Pay no attention to the use of he over she, my post is intended to be gender neutral! )

Natural Leaders are hard to come by, so the young student should be encouraged to develop leadership skills. Taking charge and taking over are different things and that is where the other students will have a reaction. One will be accepted because he can get others to work with him and the other will be percieved as a bully and a know it all. Very fine line. The goal is to turn the latter into the former. Very often the difference is based on self image. The better the younger student feels about how he fits in and can contribute, the better he will relate to the students he is working with.

Knowledge and Experience vs Leadership Skills: The team leader should be the one who is able to identify those who have the knowlege and let them shine. So they need to have enough experience to know how to ask the right questions. The team leader does need to have the respect of the peer group, but that can be earned after the leadership role is assumed. (Otherwise, only the popular students will be selected as leaders even if they are not good at leadership at all.) And it is very important that a team leader want to develop leadership skills, and be willing to learn from everyone, students and mentors alike.

Our team does a few things in selecting and developing our leadership team. Team leaders are selected in the spring with several open spots remaining until the fall. There is always an opening left for a Freshman to fill in the fall along with another opening for another student who may not have felt ready to assume a leadership position in the spring (summers change students). It might not be possible to change the structure of your leadership group right now, but it is something to consider. One of our current team leaders is a FLL “graduate” and he has been part of the leadership team since his freshman year, demonstrating the knowlege and confidence that FLL had given him. Fortunately, I don’t think he has a “know it all” bone in his body, so your situation never occurred.

The leadership team also does leadership training and all students are invited to participate in some of the leadership workshops. Learning about leadership helps the students discover their skills and learn how to get the best out of the others as well. We would be happy to share some of the resources that the team has used if you are interested.

Without changing your team structure, I’d suggest that the Team Leader take the younger student under his / her wing. Help the student take over planning / leading an activity. Make sure he gets the support of the others (be honest with them, do the “you might not like the kid, but I think he’d be good at doing this” speech), but also require that he does things to build up the team that is supporting him.

Use his skills! Have him plan a FLL event, have him teach student how to mentor an FLL team, have him be part of the recruiting effort for new students. If he really has a flare for a technical expertise, find it and use it! One of our youngest students is a CAD wizard. So he is the go-to-guy for that, regardless of age. He has been given the chance to share his skill so he doesn’t need to have the “know-it-all” attitude, he can now be the quiet authority.

Good luck! I hope I’ve helped with my ramblings! :rolleyes:

6

Regardless of what a person knows, it is the humility of knowing when to lead that makes him or her a great leader. This is particularly evident in the ever-expanding engineering world, where it is impossible for any one person to know more than an infintesimally small percentage of everything.

To me, it’s pretty apprent that this student doesn’t know that.

Unfortunately I think the only way he/she will come to understand it is by failing in some part of the leadership role. I think a sort of team-building exercise that has nothing to do with robotics is in order. You know, like the ones where everyone HAS to work like a team to get through the challenge, and know-it-alls usually don’t fair so well? Ropes courses seem to work best. If there’s a local Army or National Guard post they’ll likely have something the team can do.

7

People like this are difficult to convince that they need to listen. I was once like that, and I had to learn the hard way that I really did not know it all. I am still driven to really and truly know it all, but I try very hard (not always with success) to not let it discourage others from contributing.

In my case I have a huge need to be seen as competent, and perhaps that’s what this student needs as well. I am basing that on the different reactions to corrections from peers are mentors.

My advice is to have the mentors observe how this student interacts with peers and, assuming it’s as you described, take her/him aside when the time is right and explain that, in fact, the other person was correct and s/he was wrong. This might take several days of observation. Then the mentor needs to explain that s/he’d best start listening to the more knowledgeable teammates, or risk jeopardizing the team’s efforts.

All s/he needs is an understanding of the true meaning of team.

Ditto for the behavior at regionals - if incorrect or inaccurate information is provided, the entire team suffers.

Encourage, not discourage, the leadership tendencies, but temper it with the wisdom to know whey we have two ears and one mouth.

My 2 cents’ worth.

8

I agree with this; the first problem that you have is that this student will not listen to peer reviews. This is an issue, this needs to be fixed.

Communication is two-way, and students need to be able to take both criticism and praise in an appropriate manner. Communication is always tough to work out, so I would say that this is even something worth meeting with the whole team about, because you’re going to need great communication to keep things running smoothly and people happy, especially as build season and competition season approach.

If this individual still doesn’t get the picture after this, I think you should do what Don said and have some mentor observation and intervention. It appears that the student has some respect for the mentors, so maybe that will solve this problem. Leader or not, everyone needs to be able to take suggestions from their peers.

I think the question about leadership builds off of this first issue of communication and criticism, so it’s possible that the above alone may help to fix it. If, after everything, this student is still taking away from the experience of other team members, you might want to step back and reanalyze. What else might be causing this behavior, and what can you do about it? This is a very delicate issue, so you have to be careful how you tread. Start from a very high-level and work your way down.

9

He/She continually assumes the role of leader at competitions and stops at nothing to be sure that he/she is the front-runner for the team. **~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**What you described did not sound like someone who is leading, except in the sense of pushing to front of lines.

Give the person who needs to learn, an opportunity to serve; and when they do it well recognize and reinforce the behavior. When/if they drop the ball in order to let an audience see them in front of the team they should be serving; quickly and politely correct the situation and place the person(s) who was assigned those public-facing or coordination responsibilities back into carrying out those duties.

Talking a lot or standing in front of a crowd are not a leadership positions, they are visible positions. Taking decisions or coordinating activities are not leadership positions, they are positions that need folks with subject matter expertise and good organizational skills.

True leadership doesn’t necessarily have a title/position. True leaders working for the greater good, serve others, often very quietly, instead glorifying themselves.

Ask the person if they want to be a leader, and then describe and show them what that means. It is a lot of hard work and not so much glory. They are likely to be surprised when they find out that you are not talking about telling people what to do or being team spokesman. Instead you are talking about them helping/inspiring the team spokesman to become better…

Be sure that the entire student/mentor team is not confusing visibility with leadership and then take it from there. Maybe this person will make a good spokesman, if… they will convey the messages of the team’s leaders.

Blake