FIM - Here is a crazy off season event idea

Now that the season is over and I no longer have any robot things to think about, this popped into my head. Someone might have thought of this already but I’m putting it out there anyways.

Take the top 24 ranked teams in Michigan, get a venue, like the palace, and have an eliminations only tournament.

Top 8 teams are captains of each alliance. Number 8 gets to pick first, but can only pick a non-captain team. 7, then 6, then 5…etc. All 8 teams pick and then number 8 gets to pick first again, then 7, then 6…etc. The point is to get 8 very evenly matched alliances. We might even have captains make their pick online, weeks prior to the event so they can gather their alliances and practice together.

Charge admission to attend the event. The whole thing should last 3 or 4 hours which essentially is like a sporting event. All proceeds go to the charity selected by the winning alliance captain.

This would be the best show and I’d pay good money to watch this. Teams participating do not pay any registration fee and should get some free tickets.

I could imagine filling that arena in Michigan. It wouldn’t be hard.

Is it too crazy of a thought?


I think the biggest issue is scheduling, I know this topic has been brought up multiple times but the killer is that the “top X” teams in Michigan have drastically different plans in the off season.

This is why events like MARC or big bang that are first come first serve do so well. If a team can make it, they make it. If not, they don’t and the event still runs on the planned date.

All that said, I would love for some mad lad to try it and get a “MRI” to happen and have something similar to the IRI backpack charity. Usually tho, having events dependent on specific teams attending is a recipe for disaster.

I’m not picky, I’ll take any 24 from the top 50 ranked teams. Any 24 of them would make for an awesome show.

Seeing as we are ranked 41, I’ll be the first to volunteer my team to attend. Getting a chance to play with the big boys would be a dream come true.

It was nice to play with you at MSC, btw.

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This would be amazing, I wish my team could join.

8 picking first twice does not create balanced alliances. (8+9+17=34, 1+16+24=41). The current serpentine draft creates even alliances. (1+2+24=27, (8+9+10=27). You are giving a large advantage to alliance 8 with your system, especially with how close the very top end of Michigan is to each other.

I would love to see something like this happen, but I know it’s not very easy to pull off.

Why limit this proposed tourney to only MI teams? IRI doesn’t do so, nor does Chezy Champs etc.

Other than that, I like the proposed format, it would definitely be worth paying to attend.

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It’s very unlikely people will travel out of state to pay money to spectate a first event. At least with Michigan only teams you have a better likelihood of local family buying tickets.

You would really only be drawing from FIRST participants anyway for your ticket sales.

FRC but its using the Swiss System

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You are assuming that teams’ performance follows linearly with their rank. I’m not sure I buy that.

The point is to have every match in elimination a phenomenal show. I don’t think a randomized pseudo round robin would provide that. Plus we would want the finals as the ultimate match. In the swiss system, the last match may not decide anything or be as eventful as other matches.

I still like my 24 teams, reverse selection method best for achieving this.

Sounds great… my only suggestion would be to make it double elimination, to help justify the travel for some of the Up North teams. It wouldn’t even have to take more time, if you ran side by side fields (two should fit on a pro or college basketball court… Crisler Arena?).

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This was done as an exhibition a while back - the IGVC event held at Oakland University out under tents. The top 24 teams in Michigan were invited - if someone declined, then next on the list was invited. After quals, the playoff alliances were automatically picked based on rank (1-9-24, 2-10-23, 3-11-22, etc.). It was okay, but being outside rain and humidity was a factor. I don’t remember all the years they did this - we competed at it in 2010 and 2011.

I meant like 2nd best pick, not 2nd ranked.

Craig, glad you posted this, we did it back in 2009 The rain and humidity was not the only issue. That year they reduced the size of the field and it was up against one of the tent walls. There was a low spot in one of the corners that robots pulling trailers got stuck in.(no traction that year) The bigger problem was having to keep quiet for the college students that were preparing for their autonomous event that started the day after we were done.

You’re wrong here’s why:

The current selection system still favors the top ranked alliances. If an event worked out perfectly and your top 24 ranked teams were robot performance wise the top 24 team then the number 1 alliance has a 3 point advantage over the number 2, and so on.

1 2 24–27
3 4 23–30
5 6 22–33
7 8 21–36
9 10 20–39
11 12 19–42
13 14 18–45
15 16 17–48

Under the current serpentine method the number 1 alliance still has the greatest advantage. Luckily for your top teams robot performance does not equal rank so your top ranked alliance could get a better third bot then the other alliances pending that their scouting data is better and have an even greater advantage.

I could go more in depth on the scouting data, but it makes you realize how important scouting is. Robot data against defense, what level of defense, vs robot data on an open field, it will then factor into your match strategy. The decision we made in Curie in our alliance selection and match strategy for eliminations were greatly affected by this data. I’d love to go more into it but this isn’t the thread for that.

There should be at least 2 fields. The coolest thing about Einstein Round Robin, is the 2 fields and very little breaks in between matches.

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