FIRST Messaging & #BlackLivesMatter

FIRST General Forum
#22

i won’t dispute the accuracy of these numbers, but you’re making a fundamental error in assuming disparities = discrimination. here’s Thomas Sowell on the matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7hmTRT8tb4

the main point I was making in reference to FBI statistics is the fact that more unarmed white people are killed in arrest related deaths than black people, and that hispanic and Asian Americans are victims of this as well, and so being the issue of police brutality is not race specific.

I’m so incredibly tired of the you don’t agree with me? you’re just a bigoted racist! I know I’m not. You can believe whatever you want, but I’m not going to be silenced by charges of racism.

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#23

No, I assure you, the fundamental error is yours. I wasn’t arguing with you nor trying to change your mind.

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#24

If someone’s “ideas and opinions” are incompatible with the FIRST Core Values, should those opinions go unexamined by our community?

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#25

To add on to these sentiments, I avoid wearing robotics clothing if I plan to hang out with friends who would say anything more crude than ‘crap’ to avoid associating other teams, my own, and FIRST to that language.
(mod edit to remove the last part of this post) - Tyler

#26

…So what part of elimination of police brutality do you disagree with? Non-violent people of all colors have been getting shot & gassed this week, for the crime of exercising their first amendment rights. Are you saying that’s okay?

You’ve been saying you’re against equitable treatment. Well, what are you in favor of? What is the ideal state of the world you want?

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#27

Absolutely not. Im not saying we should ignore certain opinions or anything like that. But i also think it should be possible to have a civil discussion about them, with respect.

My issue was that people were telling others to “do some self reflection” just because their opinions were different. I understand that some of the posts here were controversial, but instead of telling those who agree with them that essentially their opinions are wrong, why not just acknowledge them, have a civil discussion, and agree to disagree? If i had come in here and told everyone in favor of BLM to do some self reflection, a whole flame war would have broken out. So why is it okay for others to say the same?

I am not taking sides here. I would love for my personal opinion to stay out of this. Nothing i have said has any reflection on my personal beliefs and opinions. This is a matter of fairness and respect, not taking sides

1 Like
#28

For people struggling to grapple with why this is happening, this video does a good job communicating many of the very recent events, and how they are linked together. There are obviously also much deeper rooted and older precursors that we can discuss as well, but this is a good jumping off point.

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#29
#30

Personal attacks are starting to come out here and this needs to be cooled down. The OP is something that as a community we should be able to discuss with compassion & empathy both in regards to Black Lives Matter and to each other here on CD.

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#31
#32

If you are an educator in any way (teacher, mentor, coach, someone that someone else looks to for advice), and you are perpetuating the ideas that a) we don’t need to discuss race in FIRST, b) we don’t need to discuss politics in FIRST, or c) racial gaps and disparities do not exist in our entire society, it’s time to educate yourself.

If you don’t do anything else productive today, please watch this TEDx Talk from a former FIRST employee:

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#33

Ratios. There’s also more white people than black people in America. Black people are much more likely to be killed by police than white people.

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#34
Didnt want to delete for reference purposes

Seeing as my post [responding to Billfred] was not put back up, I am completely checking out of this thread. I feel that my post being removed was extremely unfair, and certainly not respectful of others’ opinions. My post was removed for “a direct attack on a user that you are stating your opinion on”, which, in my opinion, was not the case. Other posts in this thread had said worse, and were minimally edited instead of removed. The point of my post was not about calling out a certain user. My post was about respecting others’ opinions and being able to agree to disagree, instead of trying to get them to change. The post being removed obviously shows that some people on CD have not yet grasped this concept.

If you would like to talk further, please send me a DM. I will not be responding to any posts in this thread.

Have a great day.

Edit: I have been in contact with a mod and my post will be put back with an altered sentence. I still stand by what I said, but am thankful for some understanding with the post.

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#35

This is useless. This type of argument is SO annoying because it just brushes the issue under the table. Just because you don’t want to talk about the real issues doesn’t mean others can’t.

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#36

…wouldn’t you expect more unarmed white people to be killed given that they are 3/4ths of the population of the US, compared to about 1/8th for African-Americans. (source).

Not controlling for population sizes seems to be pretty poor science.

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#37

You’re completely missing my point. There is a way to discuss issues civilly, without telling others their opinion needs to change. I am in no way wanting to brush the issue under the table.

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#39

I hope I’m allowed to say that I agree with neither of you without getting my posts censored.

It’s not that I think either of these claims are so outlandish, but they both seem to not understand how to have a proper conversation about a difficult subject. Telling people that their opinion must change is a surefire way to ensure they stand their ground and don’t budge. If you call someone’s opinion invalid, they’ll probably ignore what you have to say. Yes, lots of people have opinions which should change, but you cannot force that.

The best thing any of us can do is to eloquently convey our points in this thread. The best thing we can hope for is that those profound opinions will sway other individuals. Personal attacks don’t work, but well thought out attacks on ideas certainly can.

We’ve now wasted a good chunk of time and posts in this thread with arguing about the semantics of arguing. Let’s move back to the relevant content, shall we?

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#40

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”

Anything short of standing against systemic racism is an act of support toward systemic racism. Dismissive attitudes toward the fight against racial injustice because “police brutality is not race specific”, “all lives matter”, or “both sides have good points” are not neutral, they are pro-racism, regardless of whether racism is the intent.

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#41

As a resident of the Twin Cities (protests came as close as a quarter mile away from my front door), I’ve needed to confront and process the reason behind this movement since the day Floyd was murdered and even before. This isn’t just an isolated incident - this kind of abuse and mistreatment by the police happens daily in the United States, even when it doesn’t always result in a person’s death (example: civil asset forfeiture).

Thank you, FIRST, for not staying silent and using your platform to acknowledge this issue and bring it to light.

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#42

I was made aware of this thread by some past and present students of our team. As the head coach of 2046, as a teacher and as a person, I want to make it clear that Austin2046 is speaking for himself and not for our team. We do have a problem in the United States and with racism and injustice. The statistics posted by Marshall and others are clear evidence that we are far from solving these challenges.

I love what FIRST has provided for my students and I pour my heart into this program because of how it changes lives. In the 14 years I’ve been a coach, I have seen the impact on hundreds of students and it warms my heart to see what so many of these young people have done with the skills and talents that they have developed through involvement with our team and FIRST.

I want this community and my own students to know that I want every person to have these special opportunities offered by FIRST, regardless of race, sex, religion or political affiliation. May we all seek to learn from each other and find ways to make our FIRST community a positive environment for everyone who wants to be involved.

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