Flipped over and then flipped back

My favorite moment of the entire season: https://youtu.be/nzcZVva6lIU?t=68 watch the bottom right corner.

Team 6325 gets flipped over by team 4509 but then is flipped back over by team 4910 a couple seconds later. Team 4509 ended up getting a red card for it.

You’re reaction in the video is priceless. Also the head reff in training dropped her flag. Everyone lost it, a good time was had by all.

That video was awesome! It must have been even better to see it play out in person.

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As far as I am concerned, I am kinda glad that the tipper got a red card. I am also glad there was a bot who could right the tippe. If it was a one hit and done kinda thing, it would be okish, but just ramming people until that happens is uncalled for in FRC.

This should not have been a foul, much less a red card. 6325 initiated the interaction, backed out (apparently to build momentum) and re-initiated the contact several times. It appears to me that they had opportunity to back away until the last fraction of a second. 4509 stood their ground and raised the cube - both actions which should be taken as an attempt to deliver the cube to a scoring area, not an attempt to tip. 6325 was the team doing the repeated ramming until something unfortunate happened.

I do agree that it was fortunate that an alliance member was able to right them.

I disagree with this entirely, during this competition, 6325 was easily the strongest drivetrain there (I would know, they pushed the robot I was driving clear across the field), it was well known to all teams, 4509 in this instance was being pushed, you can not make an case that they were trying to score a cube since they were on the opposite half of the field from their switch platform, and they were a quarter of the way down the field from their scale, so this was an obvious and blatant attempt to disable and possibly damage a perfectly good robot, which cost the team a large sum of money and time. while the play from 6325 may not have been the cleanest FRC has ever seen, they built an insanely strong drivetrain, and they where playing the game as they saw best, they were releasing pins against walls and other robots during the entire competition like the rulebook requires, so in the eyes of the rulebook which we all play by, 6325 is innocent here, and the call was enforced as the judges saw fit.

OK, what did 4509 do after 6325 fell down, in their path where they could not touch them by G13? They went all the way around their switch to their scale platform and attempted to score that cube they’d been carrying. So yes, I most strenuously DO make the case that they were trying to score against heavy defense. If 4509 had not been in the way, it would have been about a dozen foot drive to their scale plate.

Let me put it this way - what should 4509 have been doing when 6325 tried to push them around that was any different than what they did? If they had tried to go around the switch before 6325 tipped, 6325 would have gone to meet them somewhere else. Duking it out with them is a perfectly reasonable option (and likely one that 6325 was looking forward to).

By your account, 6325 was the bully, but got knocked over by someone who stood up to them. If they built a robot to dish it out, the blame is doubly on them if they couldn’t take it. I saw no weapons, tipping wedges, or limbs designed to reach inside the frame perimeter on 4509. As I watched it several times, this was purely a game of force and leverage which 6325 lost. I sincerely doubt they wish sympathy from anyone.

I’m not saying 6325 did anything wrong, apart from picking a fight with the wrong robot in the wrong match. Nevertheless, they initiated the interaction, they kept re-engaging. They get no pity from me for losing in that interaction, nor do I believe that 4509 broke any rules in their counter-defense.

Edit: in the interest of full disclosure, the most recent robot I was part of building played little defense, but when it did it was rather good due to its low CoG and even disabled a robot which had attempted to defend against it by delivering a significant hit. This may somewhat predispose me towards counter-defense.

By FRC rule, defense is perfectly legal no matter how rough, as long as you are not blocking off a section of the field, which 6325 was not since the alternate route 4509 took was open, and you are not keeping them pressed against a wall or structure, which 6325s drivetrain is perfectly capable of, but they did not.

By FRC rule, Any damage or flipping of a robot deemed intentional is an automatic red card

6325 was not being a bully, they were simply playing defense and refusing to back down.

Y’all can debate the rest of the episode, but this part is not actually true, per the FRC rules. No, I’m not making that up.

G10. Don’t tear others down to lift yourself up. Strategies aimed at the destruction or inhibition of ROBOTS via attachment, damage, tipping, or entanglements are not allowed.
Violation: FOUL and YELLOW CARD. If harm or incapacitation occurs as a result of the strategy, YELLOW CARD is elevated to a RED CARD.

Strategies aimed at–that would mean there was intent, yes, which is why accidental tips aren’t penalized. *Note that the initial call is always going to be Foul + YC. *Given that the referees here called a red card, I would find it safe to assume that they determined there was sufficient incapacitation to warrant it, or saw damage that isn’t visible from the camera.

Honestly everyone’s reactions were the best part of the video. I’ve watched it like 20 times just laughing at how people reacted.

I will join GeeTwo in saying that it should not have been called as a Red Card.

Blue alliance. :slight_smile:

I think the referee could have seen both G10 and G11 violated, when 4509 raised the cube they were carrying, pushed it inside 6325’s frame perimeter, and tipped them over. G10: foul + yellow card, G11: foul + yellow card –> result: two fouls + red card.

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