FRC 4481 Team Rembrandts | 2024 Build Thread | Open Alliance

Intake Prototype Testing

2 days ago, some videos were posted about our ground intake, so let’s take a deeper look at the final concept and how we came up with this.

Unlike last year, we decided that quality goes over quantity. This plus the fact that the notes wouldn’t arrive before Wednesday gave us the time to design and manufacture a decent first prototype.

Sunday started with a meeting in which we discussed what different concepts would work and which variables have to be taken into account while prototyping. We came up with the following concept:

This is the 2d sketch of an under the bumper intake with horizontal top and bottom rollers. We decided to go for an under the bumper intake, mainly because of the speed of the game. We expect that the speed of the game will be very high and in order to avoid damage, this is the way to go! It also keeps the Center of Gravity and overall height of the robot lower, because this intake is placed just above the ground.

With this prototype, we can vary the following parameters

  • Wheels/rollers
  • Speed
  • The turning direction to create a different path for the note
  • Compression

On Wednesday, the notes arrived and the first tests were done. We started off with all rollers powered at 50% and noticed that everything worked as it should, so in order to test it in a more game realistic scenario, the intake was placed on a wooden drive base.

To ‘protect’ the electronics at the back, we reversed the back two rollers in order for the note to make a 90-degree turn and go straight up after intaking. This still works really well due to the flexibility of the notes.
Up until now we didn’t notice any big problems, but more tests are needed to detect possible flaws in the design. So stay tuned for the next update!


Written by:
@Janieke4481 - Electronics student & Driver

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Looking at the launcher prototyping spreadsheet from yesterday I see that you performed a couple of tests from the wing line. Could you share more details on what those shots looked like, and how low / inaccurate they were?

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We’re currently testing some more wing line shots. Will post these videos soon.

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Shooter Testing from Wing Line

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Shooter Slow motion

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Have you found an ideal compression width?
Can you elaborate on the impact that compressing the Notes in the shooter makes?
Should teams be concerned about too little or too much compression?
Thanks

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From the slow motion,
it seems as though if the Note were more compressed,
it would shoot out further. Possible?

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Also, have you tried shooting with wheels on the top and bottom?

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Compression:
We haven’t tested multiple compressions yet. Teams should pay attention to the amount of compression, indeed. It has an impact, but we can’t exactly say what it is right now without more tests.

Bottom/Top roller shooter:
We’re working on such a prototype right now. Their results are looking great!
Will send an update when we have ours up and running :+1:

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We’ll be doing the last couple tests tomorrow with the shooter from the videos. Gut feeling wise I wouldn’t go more compression then we currently have.

We shot with 5inch / 127mm compression and took some slow motion video and the first note length of the shot path it really vibrates and wobbles making it a quite inconsistent path.

We’ll test a little less compression tomorrow to note the differences and document here.

Most important parameter for now?
Based on feeling and launching shots tonight trying to see what things matter.
The shooting angle and the exit height of the note is what’s most notable for me.
Podium and subwoofer shots are very forgiving.

But looking at shooting from the end of the wing? (Or further) Then make sure you’re shooting from a little more height so the shot path is more horizontal and thus less angle.

In roughly 12 hours we’ll back at the shop tr continue testing :muscle:

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Normally I would agree, but with this specific goal, where the opening is larger from below, I feel like a lower shooter is always better (ignoring defense). If you look at the projected height of the goal assuming a very high power shot, then you have another 1.5 inches of goal height if you shoot from 14" high, instead of 30". If your trajectory is horizontal by the time it gets to the target, then you only have 4" of vertical height, meaning an error of a single inch up or down and you miss, not even including the orientation of the ring.

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Hi Rembrandts,
with regards to the 1678 auto reveal…

Are you planning on creating more prototypes or changing something to try and replicate their success?
Furthermore, I wonder if you have any insight on how their intake and shooter are built, based on your experience in prototyping all kinds of intakes and shooters.

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Well, we’re almost there…
Still tuning our Note detection software.

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I believe they have an adjustable angled shooter for the notes,
not sure if they have a Left/Right shooter or a Top/Down shooter, my guess would be Left/Right.

waiting to hopefully see adjustable shooter prototypes from you

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We’re working on both a top/down shooter and an adjustable shooter, so stay tuned!

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The Shamper & Top/Bottom Shooter Prototype Update

We’ve been working hard on trying to understand the different parameters that influence shooting a note.
One thing we learned: Shooting from the wing is going to be very difficult to do consistent! :wink:
We’ll be updating you on two different prototyping concepts in this post.

Top/Bottom Shooter

  • Powered feeder roller with a 1:1 NEO on 4" stealths.
  • Top & Bottom roller with 10mm compression (40mm distance between the wheels) powered with a single 1:1 NEO.
  • Width of the feeding plate is similar to OD of the note.

The Shamper

Based on our lessons learned of the intake and our Drainpipe Amp proto we present: The Shamper!

  • 3" feeder roller with compliant wheels 1:1 on NEO.
  • Top & Bottom rollers are 3" colsons, separately powered on 1:1 NEO.
  • Amp rollers are 2" stealth wheels powered from the bottom roller.

Parameter Testing Top & Bottom Shooter

We fired plenty of notes today, shot a lot of footage and changed a lot of settings.
A couple lessons learned:

  • Compression:
    We started with 1" compression based on the other videos we saw from other teams. Eventually we decreased the compression to 10mm and this increased our shot consistently, plus the NEOs were sounding less suffering.
  • Full roller width vs. with gap in the center:
    Having wheels in the center of your roller will make it so that the NOTE gets sucked in and completely deforms, which for us didn’t work on longer distances.

Removing the center wheels and stacking them on the side with a gap in the center increased consistency for us. Here’s a video with a full top roller:

  • Guiding rail adjustments for feeding:
    One thought we had was feeding the notes a little bit compressed. Like the picture below.

This didn’t work as hoped, and eventually we removed the side tubes again to adjust the width to the normal OD of the note.
(The top & bottom wheels weren’t adjusted yet on the picture, with testing we changed up the spacers for more contact area between the NOTE and the wheels)

Here’s the top & bottom shooter at work!

The shooter prototype below scored 6 out of 13 notes which for us wouldn’t be consistent enough to take the gamble but rather drive up to the speaker closer.

Shooting from Wing Line distance

The Shamper

As said, we loved our intake and our Drainpipe Amp proto which was the inspiration for The Shamper. An integrated shooter with amp scoring mechanism.
Here are a couple screenshots from the design to make the working principle a little bit more clear.
So the NOTE gets fed through belts and pulleys into the rollers. But changing the direction on the rollers, we can re-direct the NOTE to go into the amp or shoot straight.

Amp shot with dual 2" roller

Worked great, both 2" rollers were powered, and we were curious if we needed the second smaller roller. Removing it was a quick test, and it turned out to work just as good. So we’ll go for a roller less if we continue down this path.

Amp shot with single 2" roller from distance

Shooting from a little bit further away to see how far we could get.

Now time to shoot!

The shot is from just a little past the podium, like halfway stage. For this configuration, we need the middle colson on the roller to make sure we can re-direct the NOTE in its path.
Shooting from a closer distance didn’t seem to affect it too much, and it was quite consistent. We’re getting the feeling that this concept could be a pretty clean and simple shooter & amp mechanism which might not be able to shoot long distance but would be great with good software and lots of driver practice!

Archetype decision on Sunday!

Tomorrow will be the day that we make our final decision on our archetype. From there we’ll be detailing our CAD and preparing electronics & software. You can expect some sketches & dimensions for our first ALPHA robot tomorrow!

Pros & Cons of the notes!

Being lucky to have multiple notes we’ve seen quite some wear on it after a heavy day of prototyping and testing. We can imagine a lot of them going to be in a bad shape throughout events…
Besides that, shooting with 1 or 2 notes might give you the feeling that your shot is consistent. We’ve built quite some high fidelity prototypes with motorized feed, and the shot inconsistency between NOTES has been pretty bad. So watch out!


Written by:
@RonnyV - Team Manager

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For your shamper long range testing, are those still the 3" colsons or did you change them to 4"? They look like 4" in the cad but the top/bottom roller prototype had 3" ones.

Love the testing your team has been doing, it has been really helpful for 9062 as we make our decisions. Thank you for the info!

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We’re currently having a dilemma that I think you might be having, between a top-bottom shooter and side wheel shooter. What are your thoughts on this, and what would you see as the advantages for each one? We’re in a 50-50, and in our minds it seems like they tradeoff accuracy vs power.

We’re currently shooting with 3” colsons. This prototype had 1” compression due to make the roller geometry work so we can redirect its path.

Don’t mind the different wheels in the center… these were all the colsons we had.


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