FRC 4481 Team Rembrandts | 2024 Build Thread | Open Alliance

We’re leaning towards horizontal shooter because it can be packaged more neatly in the final design.

I don’t know the resource level of your team and what your requirements are.

Basically shooting from the podium or the subwoofer can be done with a wide variety of shooter styles.

If my team was less CAD-skilled and our manufacturing resources are a little less then I’d go for the side wheel shooter. The horizontal top and bottom need decent allignment, straight axles, even compression all around or you’ll be fighting inconsistency even more

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Did you guys see a consistency change between top/bottom shooter vs side shooter ?

This is insightful! We’ve recently upped our manufacturing capabilities, and are doing an in-depth CAD, so we don’t have many limitations. We’ve also been leaning towards the horizantal rollers, so its good to see other teams thinking this. Have you noticed any big variations in accuracy that would have an effect on shooting from midrange, or do you think it is relatively consistent from your testing?

Top and bottom was better than side wheel from wing line distance. But still only 50-60% of the notes scored.

If your requirement is podium and/or subwoofer distance then you’re good with both concepts either way

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Do you think that increasing the length of the shooter to three or even four wheels may increase consistency at the edge of the wing? Do you have any ideas that you think will increase accuracy?

Thank you for all of this wonderful prototyping!

Most likely having 8 wheels, 4 each side, 2 top and 2 bottom would help shot accuracy yes.

Sadly something we couldn’t easily test today. We did move our feeder shaft up closer to the top and bottom roller but that didn’t improve it really. There was a neo and pulleys in the way so we couldn’t put it super close. I think there was 4-5” distance between feeder and top roller.

Usually the longer you’re in contact with the game piece the more accurate it gets. That has been for frisbees and all the different type of balls we’ve had.

A top and bottom just has a lot of knobs to dial in and test with. We haven’t been able to find the right settings yet and we’re unsure if it’s worth the chase.

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Are you imparting any spin on the notes? Hard to tell from the videos.

Do you know how consistent it is if you are right against the front of the speaker?

Hi, can you post the CAD for this? Thanks!

Currently we are not.

We did play around with different speeds for the top and bottom roller. But it didn’t show any significant increase in consistency

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Now for the final Progression, Top/Down and Left/Right shooter combined into one.

90-100%
Shooting from the subwoofer and podium isn’t all too difficult.

We’ll be releasing our CAD once the Alpha Robot is up & running and that we’re sure we’ve hit all the right design dimensions etc. :+1:

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I think youre joking, but you might not be wrong. It would be a pain if that tuned out to be the answer to consistency, but maybe thats it

Would be an interesting one to test. Hopefully we will see some shots appearing on CD with that concept. If you find one please tag us :smiley:

For our team, the next steps will depend on the final archetype decision. From there we will start CAD/production/programming/etc for the alpha bot. Getting a robot up and running early in buildseason has our priority now, so we can start with driverpractice and software testing.

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Or, the Obevelator.

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Archetype Decision & Layout Sketch for TR ALPHA

The second part of our week 1 has been all about different archetypes. On wednesday we decided what type of skills the robot needed. This says something about WHAT the robot should do. But there are many different HOWs to think of and design.

Here’s where experience from previous seasons comes into play and knowing other robots from different seasons, as well as knowing the resource capabilities of your team. Building within your team’s capabilities is something that we highly recommend and is usually underestimated.

Archetype Decision Process

A team’s capabilities might be quite an abstract topic to grasp. For ourselves we’ve tried dividing it up in a couple attributes with the addition of some technical attributes.

Archetype Attributes

Attribute Explanation
Simplicity The simplicity of subsystems based on degrees of freedom complexity (1678 method)
Driver friendly Ease of game piece collection, scoring, and field traversal
CoG Center of Gravity of the robot in cm from the ground. Low CoG boosts driving performance
Knowledge Base Reuse or Development of subsystem concepts from previous seasons
Manufacturability The resources needed to build and repair the subsystems (people, skill level, amount of time, tools)
Cost The costs of components needed to build subsystems. High costs can lead to the ability of creating less spare parts.

For each attribute we described 5 different levels. The higher the score the better it is for the overall robot. Check the table below to see how we described the different levels.

Every archetype concept gets judged based on these attributes and awarded with a certain score/level

Attribute Weighted Scoring

Not every attribute is equally important. We’ve given every attribute a weight factor, all the factors added up need to be 1.

So in order of importance:
0.25 – Simplicity

0.2 – Driver Friendly & CoG

0.15 – Knowledge Based

0.1 – Manufacturability & Cost

The Possible Archetypes & Their Scores

We had a team meeting with the entire team on Saturday afternoon. Through a Mentimeter we gathered all the input from all the team members on how they would score the archetype attributes.

Archetype 1

Archetype 2

Archetype 3

Verdict - Archetype 2

After scoring the three archetypes we went over the scores and discussed all the pro’s and con’s of each subsystem once more. The general consensus was that the scores definitely reflected how everyone was feeling in regards to the best fit for this game.

With that input we decided that we wanted to have the Shamper prototype up and running before we fully decided on our final archetype. In our last post you could see that the Shamper was working quite well and thus Archetype 2 will be our choice for our TR Alpha robot.

After a day of working on the sketch and see how everything would fit this is the most recent screenshot:


Written by:
@RonnyV - Team Manager

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so if I understand the drawing correctly you guys went with the top/bottom rollers for the shooter? and this double as the amp mechanism?

Correct. Through changing rotation on the shooter we can redirect the note to the amp as shown in the Shamper prototype video

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Spoiler: FUN OA Show interview coming real soon

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The OA Show ft. 4481 Team Rembrandts


In this showcase, some of our students give an in-depth look into our Data Driven Decision Making process, the prototyping of our ‘Shamper’ (combined Speaker/Amp shooter) and automation plans for our software.

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