[FRC Blog] Kickoff Fields Go Virtual

FIRST General Forum
#64

Here are my random thoughts as Field Builder and Kickoff Coordinator since 2008 for the Boston Local Kickoff.

A HUGE welcome back to the ~30 hours of my life usually given up in the week leading up to kickoff. Seriously, I’m stoked.

Without ‘beta testing’ the documentation package, I certainly think we’ll have a fair share of community frustration with the elements. We all know our favorite remakes over the years - 2010 Tower Structure, 2012 Bridges, 2013 Pyramids, 2014 “Trusses”, 2016 Defenses and 2017 Boilers…

While hard to dispute an advantage - I think the perceived value of having field elements right after kickoff is a bit overblown here, at least from my perspective. Our team gives up day 1 of kickoff completely to host the event for 50 FRC teams. We have to disassemble, reassemble and then disassemble the elements to move them to the location that 50 teams attend. We then often need to remake large pieces of the field for X, Y or Z reason.

If shooting fuel (as an example) is what you want to start prototyping RIGHT out of the gate, it would only take a few people a few hours (at most) to get a Boiler setup - and setup into a configuration you know is useful. I think its a stretch to say having an element of unknown usefulness at hour 0 or an element of solid usefulness at hour 3 is a large advantage over a 45 day build season.

The many many teams not reading these responses on Delphi are going to likely suffer the most. For so many teams the only interaction they will have with field elements is either at a local Kickoff or at their first (and maybe only) event.

My ultimate conclusion: I think teams are going to feel the pain a bit on this one as we struggle through the field drawings as a group for the first time. I’m disappointed for teams that usually don’t build field elements and now will not have any physical scale in mind when starting their build season. That being said, I can think of a number of good things to implement to help pull some of these teams back to our shop to observe the elements either via Quick Build, Mock-Inspection Day or just general practice.

Overall though, I’m happy to get a huge chunk of life back. It’s a big personal win for me.

-Brando

#65

I, for one, am a little disappointed by this change. When I was in high school with 116, we always did kickoff at home with our team and only sent a mentor to pick up our kit. When I joined 1712 as a mentor, one of the changes in how we run is that we attended our local kickoff event as a team. One of the big draws of attending that event was that they had a wooden field mock-up for us to interact with. With virtual fields and no wooden field elements, are teams even going to bother attending their local kickoffs anymore? That was the big draw of a remote kickoff, in my mind. Anyone can fire up the webstream and watch the kickoff these days, and you don’t need a full team to pick up a kit of parts.

I’m going to miss that kickoff experience, and particularly the interactions with other teams. The moment where the curtain is dropped and everyone crowds from the auditorium seats to the field elements on the stage was one of the cooler moments for the FRC season for me. You not only got to see an approximation of the field elements for the first time, but you got to chat about it with numerous other teams from your area, many of which you probably won’t see or talk to again until competition season. You got to spitball ideas and pick each others’ brains about how the game and field would work. I’m not sure this is going to happen without field elements to congregate around. The teams who still even opt to show-up to kickoff events are likely going ot leave shortly after the broadcast ends.

For the purpose of transparency, 1712 is also gearing up to be a remote kickoff host for 2019. While we have never done so in the past, we had some vested interest in having field elements this year. We were pursuing everything above board, with our woodworking sponsor and team parents leading the field construction, rather than team mentors (so there’d be no chance of leaks or undo exposure to field drawings). I’m discouraged by this not just because we won’t have field elements on kickoff day, but also because our initial kickoff hosting experience simply might be disappointing to other teams who are used to having those field elements available (and in turn to our school administration and other guests, who we had the desire of impressing by showing off numerous other teams attending).

I wish FIRST had phased this change in slower, and still allowed for remote kickoffs to have physical fields for the upcoming season. I would have even accepted increased levels of vetting and file security for remote build teams to prevent leaks.

#66

It won’t be. You don’t need the field elements to have a wonderful collaborative day. Run a cross-team strategy workshop to read the rules, condense the rules, and develop proposed strategies in the morning, then help your rookies build kitbot after lunch, and you’ll have a weekend for everyone to remember. Pre-built field elements helpful but optional.

increased levels of vetting and file security for remote build teams to prevent leaks
I don’t think this matters, I don’t think that was the vector of [many?] leaks, and there are too many other good reasons for this change to happen.

#67

Well… except the CAD leak last year perhaps… Either way, the level of security on the .ZIP files that get sent around (including the ones public pre-kickoff) is, honestly, pathetic.

#68

The CAD leak last year was not a file given to field builders. Field builders are never given that much detailed information about the actual competition field in advance. That leak was from a slip-up on Autodesk’s end, I believe.

#69

I didn’t mean to imply the CAD leak from the the builders, I was following on the file security comment from Lil’ Lavery.

As to the source of the leak, I’m pretty confident the files originated at Autodesk (the metadata was pretty clear and who’d have time to create that from team-drawings?), how they got in the open is a whole other story. Regardless I know the NI .zip file was broken pre-launch last year, because the .zip file encryption used is so bad. (Let just say (3) 32-bit “keys,” and “compatibility” and leave it at that.)

#70

From what i saw, there was no encryption.

#71

I really hope they create some test fields of maybe Power Up so teams with very little to no vr experience can try it out before the crazy of kickoff.

#72

It exists. It was done by Automation Direct this past year. Pretty good implementation for playing around with.

#73

Almost doesn’t look too have Google cardboard accessibility.
https://library.automationdirect.com/free-first-voucher/

That right … strap on your HTC VIVE or OCULUS RIFT and go play around on the POWER UP field.

The blog promises simple Google cardboard or similar. I have the Galaxy Gear goggles. I’m curious to how the experience will be at these levels manoeuvring around the field

#74

Ohh… I see. There were some of those google cardboard images made available for the 2016 game but I’m having a hard time finding the originals:

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1525763

#75

Oh boy that link does not support the move. Sounded like Android only (at the time at least) and other heartaches. There is a 1G 360 images file on the game and season page. Not quite the vr experience people are going to expect. Even fully loaded consumer VR is so so at times.

#76

So it depends on what they deliver. I’m fairly confident that the new Oculus Go type headsets ($200 - not an unreasonable amount) will make viewing things like the above mentioned work from Automation Direct viable for most teams. I can’t speak for cardboard (my one experience with it was not great and I’ve moved on to other things long since) but I know many phones support the “Daydream”-type headsets and those are similarly capable and not all that different of an experience to the cardboards… just less cardboard. It’s really just a matter of porting the content over and making it available to teams - I’m not claiming that is simple (especially given the track record of the group involved) but it is well-within their capabilities.

If they want help then the Zebracorns are happy to share our expertise and at least a few of them know how to get in touch with us:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vSNTfNorS1CbCh5dUsHwqZdtEv36hsjoiHLyfIZ6MlLv0g8Ot6k16NaQmdOgX1rqBXvc9QIrUdQJsFq/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000 (Slides 3,4, & 5)
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160893&highlight=zebrareality
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155917&highlight=zebrareality
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155881&highlight=zebrareality

#77

So the real point i’m driving is i’m afraid that come kick off if it’s not rainbows and unicorns with the new virtual fields there could be a revolution sparked.

My team will find a way to make it work. We are a low resource team. Not scraping the bottom of the barrel but budget conscious. Will it be trying to order something that day because the Samsung Gear hacked for Google cardboard doesn’t work only to find everyone is backordered. The first few post here argue $15 fix, now we are at $200. What is the minimum requirements, how do we prepare?

If last year’s offerings are what First is replacing kick off fields with there will be alot of heartache. Many people looked past these files because either they didn’t have hardware or didn’t work for the hardware on hand.

#78

I mean MN still hasn’t gone to districts and there hasn’t been a revolution yet. I doubt the small portion of the community losing access to wooden field elements for an hour is going to start one.

#79

I commented my question if we will get to test the new system before kick off on the blog. I will have to wait to see if it gets a reply.

#80

I can’t answer that. I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between. I also suspect FIRST is actively trying to find some sponsors for this effort in some capacity and if they are announcing it this early then they plan on doing better this year but we shall see.

#81

You must not be close to the insider’s. It’s a pressure vessel here ready to pop. There seems to be a few holding tight to the old way that carry the majority of the vote. (So i’m told) Meanwhile the majority all seem to want it. It’s a hot button look it can take over nearly every topic even unrelated topics on Chief Delphi. MN Districts or Bag and Tag have similar effects.

#82

The question is which will be supported, and which should the teams be expected to support. The former is driven by the partners and what they develop for, and the letter is, essentially, a financial/resource problem.

On the high end the Oculus Rift et al, then you’ve got Google Daydream in the lower range (I think I have 3 or 4 “freebees” of those around here somewhere), and then Google Cardboard. On the bottom you have the “no-vr” option, some PC/web app that lets you click around a rendered field.

And that doesn’t even touch any iOS devices…

HQ will need to give us some guidance, well before kickoff, as to what platforms/systems they expect us to use/support, otherwise this is going to be a disaster.

#83

I don’t think it will be a disaster but I am curious how many FIRSTChoice Credits we will have to spend to get a folding cardboard box. :wink: