[FRC Blog] Kickoff Fields Go Virtual

FIRST General Forum
#69

I didn’t mean to imply the CAD leak from the the builders, I was following on the file security comment from Lil’ Lavery.

As to the source of the leak, I’m pretty confident the files originated at Autodesk (the metadata was pretty clear and who’d have time to create that from team-drawings?), how they got in the open is a whole other story. Regardless I know the NI .zip file was broken pre-launch last year, because the .zip file encryption used is so bad. (Let just say (3) 32-bit “keys,” and “compatibility” and leave it at that.)

#70

From what i saw, there was no encryption.

#71

I really hope they create some test fields of maybe Power Up so teams with very little to no vr experience can try it out before the crazy of kickoff.

#72

It exists. It was done by Automation Direct this past year. Pretty good implementation for playing around with.

#73

Almost doesn’t look too have Google cardboard accessibility.
https://library.automationdirect.com/free-first-voucher/

That right … strap on your HTC VIVE or OCULUS RIFT and go play around on the POWER UP field.

The blog promises simple Google cardboard or similar. I have the Galaxy Gear goggles. I’m curious to how the experience will be at these levels manoeuvring around the field

#74

Ohh… I see. There were some of those google cardboard images made available for the 2016 game but I’m having a hard time finding the originals:

https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1525763

#75

Oh boy that link does not support the move. Sounded like Android only (at the time at least) and other heartaches. There is a 1G 360 images file on the game and season page. Not quite the vr experience people are going to expect. Even fully loaded consumer VR is so so at times.

#76

So it depends on what they deliver. I’m fairly confident that the new Oculus Go type headsets ($200 - not an unreasonable amount) will make viewing things like the above mentioned work from Automation Direct viable for most teams. I can’t speak for cardboard (my one experience with it was not great and I’ve moved on to other things long since) but I know many phones support the “Daydream”-type headsets and those are similarly capable and not all that different of an experience to the cardboards… just less cardboard. It’s really just a matter of porting the content over and making it available to teams - I’m not claiming that is simple (especially given the track record of the group involved) but it is well-within their capabilities.

If they want help then the Zebracorns are happy to share our expertise and at least a few of them know how to get in touch with us:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vSNTfNorS1CbCh5dUsHwqZdtEv36hsjoiHLyfIZ6MlLv0g8Ot6k16NaQmdOgX1rqBXvc9QIrUdQJsFq/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000 (Slides 3,4, & 5)
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160893&highlight=zebrareality
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155917&highlight=zebrareality
https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155881&highlight=zebrareality

#77

So the real point i’m driving is i’m afraid that come kick off if it’s not rainbows and unicorns with the new virtual fields there could be a revolution sparked.

My team will find a way to make it work. We are a low resource team. Not scraping the bottom of the barrel but budget conscious. Will it be trying to order something that day because the Samsung Gear hacked for Google cardboard doesn’t work only to find everyone is backordered. The first few post here argue $15 fix, now we are at $200. What is the minimum requirements, how do we prepare?

If last year’s offerings are what First is replacing kick off fields with there will be alot of heartache. Many people looked past these files because either they didn’t have hardware or didn’t work for the hardware on hand.

#78

I mean MN still hasn’t gone to districts and there hasn’t been a revolution yet. I doubt the small portion of the community losing access to wooden field elements for an hour is going to start one.

#79

I commented my question if we will get to test the new system before kick off on the blog. I will have to wait to see if it gets a reply.

#80

I can’t answer that. I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between. I also suspect FIRST is actively trying to find some sponsors for this effort in some capacity and if they are announcing it this early then they plan on doing better this year but we shall see.

#81

You must not be close to the insider’s. It’s a pressure vessel here ready to pop. There seems to be a few holding tight to the old way that carry the majority of the vote. (So i’m told) Meanwhile the majority all seem to want it. It’s a hot button look it can take over nearly every topic even unrelated topics on Chief Delphi. MN Districts or Bag and Tag have similar effects.

#82

The question is which will be supported, and which should the teams be expected to support. The former is driven by the partners and what they develop for, and the letter is, essentially, a financial/resource problem.

On the high end the Oculus Rift et al, then you’ve got Google Daydream in the lower range (I think I have 3 or 4 “freebees” of those around here somewhere), and then Google Cardboard. On the bottom you have the “no-vr” option, some PC/web app that lets you click around a rendered field.

And that doesn’t even touch any iOS devices…

HQ will need to give us some guidance, well before kickoff, as to what platforms/systems they expect us to use/support, otherwise this is going to be a disaster.

#83

I don’t think it will be a disaster but I am curious how many FIRSTChoice Credits we will have to spend to get a folding cardboard box. :wink:

#84

doesn’t ring a bell

#85

Hey, if they want to put an Oculus Rift in there for 5 FC points…

But no, disaster would be the right word I think. I would expect that some kickoffs will try to have some of whatever VR system they need. Some may try, but not have it, or be able to get it. Some teams may be unprepared, wrong system, etc. For the lower resource teams a VR system at kickoff by be their only chance to “interact” with field elements before competition, where in the past they may have seen built team elements.

I’m not concerned about the poofs, et al, it’s the low/no resource teams who may take it on the chin here.

#86

I’m not convinced having a wooden field available was helping them all that much to start with. So far the only real argument for the wooden kickoff elements is of the form “BuT mUh pRuDuxZIoN VaLUZe”… I see that argument as perfectly valid but I also know that FRC has changed a lot since I was a student.

#87

Big difference, it is not a small portion of the community that is loosing access to the wooden field elements. Per the blog post ~45% of the kickoffs didn’t have field elements which means that over half of them did. Sure not every team attends a kick-off en force, but no matter how you cut it it is not a small portion of the teams that have been used to having access to the elements.

Meanwhile in MN I’m certain that many teams still don’t really know about the district system and many that are aware of it don’t know what they are missing because they are being kept in the dark about the benefits. Those that are least likely to know and understand the system are those that stand to benefit from it the most. The teams that already understand the benefits of attending two events have the ability to go to two events.

For years I had no clue that there were kickoffs that had field elements available, because I didn’t attend one that did. However once I attended one that did I never went back to one w/o even though it was closer for the majority of my team.

#88

I think people are overblowing this a little. The teams who don’t build pre-kickoff are losing probably 1-2 hours of looking at the field elements. The teams who do build are losing 8-10 hours of build season.

You got six and a half weeks to build a robot. If 10 hours are making or breaking your season in week 1, you may want to investigate why a day or two of work is going to completely ruin your chance at taking your team to Einstein for the first time.