[FRC Blog] Kickoff Fields Go Virtual

FIRST General Forum
#21

For a low resource team, not being able to see and physically measure actual field elements will be a small setback. We hope to be able to construct field mockups next year, but not being able to physically touch/measure/handle field elements will complicate that.

Correct me if I’m misunderstanding something, but how about for the people without VR equipment? I feel like I’m missing something, but now the teams or individuals with headsets can interact with the field while the rest of us are stuck with CAD renders. I’m not digging it, but at least the kickoff volunteers have less work to do.

#22

Plenty of teams around here don’t see a full field until a competition. To me, it seems to level the playing field (pun intended) for areas that didn’t have this to begin with.

#23

I’m not a fan of this. Several local teams have gotten together for kickoff the past few years, and part of it was a play through of the game with the virtual field. It helped our teams work more closely together and gave the kids (especially the new ones) a sense of scale. I’m not sure what this will mean for the future of our kickoff event other than it being just a distribution center for kits.

#24

Really going to miss the chance to interact with 2019 equivalents to “spring on a pair of 2x4s” and “improperly weighted bridge” along with “object that is unambiguously not the same size as the actual element.” Who can forget classics like “wooden truss that could have been a string” or “rope on a stand”?

If you are a team that historically hosts a kickoff with physical elements and you’re upset, you’re probably telling on yourself.

#25

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Seconding the opinions that FIRST will have to step up their game on the team drawings… there have been significant revisions every year I’ve done the build, and every year I’ve remembered having elements that could have been simplified or improved significantly if their process hadn’t been so restrictive.

Feeling bad for ‘Snow Problem building elements for 2019 now, but overall, I’m pretty ambivalent about this. It’s exchanging one set of problems for what is likely to be another set.

#26

When did you become a toaster? :confused:

I don’t expect it to work that way, at least not for the low cost team-version drawings. Under the old system, those got some pre-season feedback from the small army of builders, allowing HQ engineering to make corrections earlier. Now any feedback will come during build season, while everyone at HQ and on teams is just a tad busy. Corrections to those drawings will have be handled like any other Q&A topic.

#27

I’ve been at this a decade and didn’t know “field builders” prior to kickoff was a possibility. Just slide the VR tools under my rock.

Good change.

David

#28

It will be left up to a dictionary? :wink:

#29

I didn’t either. You and I remain secure under our rocks apparently. I just thought there was a field at the Right Coast Kick-off. Wonder what else I don’t know? (No one is required to answer that!)

#30

I do remember pre-built field elements at our local kickoff… back in 2005. Haven’t seen a real field in years, the field videos already help a lot so the VR aspect will just add to it.

#31

I would bet my $0.02 that this change is driven by economics (cash+sweat) of scaling a uniform kickoff field elements experience to a growing number of kickoffs in a global program.

#32

#33

I have mixed feelings on this.

On the one hand I’m for it because I do believe it promotes some equity. As mentioned a large percentage of kick-offs do not have field elements available and you do have teams that are not able to attend a kick-off in person getting their kit via surrogate pickup, a sole person going to a kick-off, or have it shipped to them.

I do feel that even the poor approximation that some of the team elements are does at the very minimum give you an idea of the scale which is useful for items like… well the Scale from last season. One of the reasons my team has picked the kickoff we attend is that it has had the field elements while the other one in the area doesn’t.

#34

A non-GIF explanation: each kickoff / team funded their own material / construction costs.

#35

I kind of like this a bit better. This way we can see the field up close in between the kickoff and getting stuff built, even if it’s a bit restrictive.

However, it would be even better to have AR field elements included in the KOP for prototyping and some testing before the game is released. Then, some field elements could be simulated with a QR code on the ground and a phone app. It might not work for things the robot has to interact with directly, but for things like goals where an object just needs to end up in a location, it would be pretty useful.

#36

Now this is a cool idea.

#37

Let me clarify [strike]for the haters[/strike].

Creating and scaling.

I ran a kickoff in 2018. Our ~wonderful~ RD found funding and a group of non-team-affiliated volunteers and made three sets of really high quality wooden field elements happen for Northern California. It was a horrific amount of work to load onto a tiny and dedicated team, I don’t think it was sustainable or scalable, and I hope we can harness the volunteer energy used there to help other parts of the program instead.

VR? Tell teams to bring a phone or five with Cardboard. Handled.
AR? Have team-affiliated (!) volunteers tape out a field and set out vision targets. Software links go live on Kickoff morning. Handled.

Best part? Any team competent enough to wire and control a robot can do either of those tasks at their home shop/gym/public park/wherever. One portable experience, wherever your group of robot builders has space.

#38

I hear ya. I was a field builder in 2014 and I agree; the small crew I was with probably spent 30+ hours during winter break making everything. In the end, I wasn’t terribly sure the results per unit time spent were worth it either, especially compared to, say, the 4-5 hours we spent helping teams with their kitbots. I’m good with the changes.

#39

Silly question, but please humor me: Will I be able to interact with the virtual field without a VR headset? Asking for a friend.

#40

You must’ve missed the 2015 Kickoff, when Garnet Squadron found a builder and funded it out of its own pocket.

And having been that Kickoff coordinator: Good riddance to this.