[FRC Blog] Priority Waitlist Slot Releases

Ope they slipped through my filter since they aren’t attending a 2nd district event.

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ooooo interesting, I didn’t notice that

This is weird though. When 5484 won…that still took 1 regional spot AND 1 district spot. So the regional teams aren’t “better off”. That slot just became a waitlist spot (I think). To me, it seems like the logical thing to do may have been to at least give 1493 5881 a wildcard slot (who would have been the next qualified team based on the wildcard rules I think).

I’m not necessarily advocating for this solution (id gladly take an extra IN spot). Just seems weird for 1 team to take 2 slots.

Edit: Wrong team…Wildcard rules are hard.

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There was a lot going on, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but I thought 2 wildcard slots were open and filled by both 2601 and 1493.

Edit, them in the twitch stream Twitch
2601 and 1493 did get wildcard spots.

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Regional teams have zero recourse to flow in the opposite direction. :thinking:

After serious lobbying, FIRST did well to provide some balance to this one-way flow by adding an extra wild card for regionals, but those evaporated this year. I can’t shed tears if districts are being hurt by the numbers crunch of a single championship as a result of taking a qualifying spot from a regional. Quid pro quo. Some regional team is sitting at home because a district team qualified at a regional. We going to feel bad for them too, or are they 2nd class citizens?

If there is to be pain, everyone should be sharing in it equally. Inhales audibly, but such is life.

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Everybody competing in a regional pays the same price to play in that regional event. Figure in travel expenses, and some teams pay orders of magnitude more.
This District team v Regional team rhetoric is ridiculous.

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I would echo what the others have said by saying other Indiana teams are proud of you representing and there are absolutely no hard feelings. You earned that spot and we were rooting for you!!!

For smaller Indiana teams with no real shot at the culture awards, DCMP might have just become win or go home. I might have to rewatch the 30 for 30, Survive and Advance to get myself pumped for DCMP. It could be a rough year to be the third best robot in the very small but deep state of Indiana.

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So ridiculous that FIRST added wild cards to balance out the flow.

I really can’t fault the district teams for doing things that are legal and accessible to them. I have always faulted the system that allowed it to happen in the first place, without some kind of balancing dynamic.

That balancing dynamic was removed this season.

Pain must be shared.

PS Hall of Fame district teams - more power to anyone bringing their own wild cards with them. :slightly_smiling_face:

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:white_check_mark:

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This pain is not being shared equally. If I had known that the only way my team qualifies for Champs this year was to win the entire district, I would have signed my team up for a regional.

Your team is currently signed up for 3 regionals, giving you 3 chances to qualify. Smaller Indiana teams with no real shot at Chairman’s or EI will get one shot, one opportunity… mom’s spaghetti.

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3rd winning alliance robot would be out of luck. Look at FTC this year – our state championship (Washington) had only 2 slots for Worlds, the Inspire winner and the captain of the winning alliance. I assume others were the same. You can bet that the #2-ranked teams were “graciously declining” the request to join the #1 alliance under those circumstances!

So I am not sure how many total teams there are in IN(a little under 60?), but there at least were 8 qualifying spots for the 32(?) teams at IN DCMP. Referencing specifically Travis’s team, there are 12 spots for the 147 teams competing across those three regionals. Even with one spot gone but still awarded to an IN team, I think IN still comes out on top.

You’re right. They took 1 of 8 spots away from 53 possible teams in the district, and 1 of 4 possible spots for the 41 teams at the regional. 12.5% of the chances from 53 teams or 25% of the chances from 41 teams, that really does seem lopsided.

Also… were you really aiming for such a small target? Doing well enough to be ranked at the top, but not quite so well that you win the whole thing?

We are blessed to be successful in fundraising and sponsor acquisition…much like many of the district teams who participate in multiple qualifiers, their district championship, the championship event, and also find the time to attend a regional.

A large majority of the teams at regionals where spots are taken by districts - at least in my neck of the woods - are in a position where they are attending 1, maybe 2 events at most. The dissolution of the Miami Valley Regional hasn’t helped matters. So they are essentially in the same qualifying boat as what you characterize your team to be - not as many opportunities as one might like. If a well-practiced district team shows up and takes one of the regional qualifying spots, with no wild card to fill that void, then suddenly all of the WOW area teams that are less-advantaged with fewer competitive opportunities are feeling that crunch. See the parallels?

I really wish district teams would just try to think about the other side of the coin every so often.

I will admit that Indiana being as small as it is as a district will probably have more challenges and heartache as a result of the single championship than other larger districts. I can understand that frustration.

As I have said, it all inhales audibly and many people are going to be hurt by the numbers crunch.
Just understand there are plenty of teams in these regional areas that are also being hurt by what was taken away in order to make it all work this year.

By the numbers, it’s seems fair. The allocation is different.

In the regional model I have 2 chances to win the event. In Indiana I have 1.

That said, if I am a rookie all-star , I have 1 chance to win in Indiana, where I would not at a regional (except through wildcards).

If I am a 2nd pick robot, I have a chance to win in Indiana and go to worlds, where I would not in a regional.

I think that is the big difference. Regionals eliminated the ticket for rookie all-star and 2nd pick alliance partner where Indiana did not. I think that’s why Indiana teams with strong performing robots feel a little…nervous…now.

It’s just a different allocation, and feels different from other regions.

Above I am assuming that I am a regional team going to 2 regionals, which would cost the same $9000 as a district team that attends the CMP.

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Dude, nobody is aiming to not do their best.

The issue here is the removal of qualifying spots based on robot performance. 4 of those 8 (now 7) spots are for awards that rightfully deserve to qualify, but are not actually in the realm of possible for many teams (and not based on robot performance). My inner city school of 500 students is competing against better funded suburban schools of 4000 students for Chairman’s. We have made the decision to focus mostly on robot performance, due to limited resources and being a relatively young team.

The third best robot in Indiana will likely not qualify, and that’s a shame because they will likely be an amazing robot whoever it is. And they definitely weren’t aiming for that small target, they were trying to win it all and maybe had some tough luck on the day of their only opportunity.

The district model only really works if there are robots who qualify based on points. Otherwise it is more like a single regional spread out over multiple weekends.

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So how about a solution… district teams can’t sign up for regionals any more. Would that satisfy you and others who are upset about “losing” a spot to one of your own teams winning a regional, or would we have more people from the districts upset that they’re locked out of regionals?

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I’m cool with that for sure, but I’m just one guy and I’m sure others would disagree because their teams are different. I also just think everyone should move towards districts (easier said than done). Ultimately, I know that the real problem here is Indiana being so small in a tight year. This isn’t a problem in any other year, and I honestly like being in a small district any other time.

In truth, I’m just grateful to be playing in person this year, and there’s always a cutoff for someone not making it. Learning and growing opportunities all around, whatever happens. It will surely be a wild ride for the teams who win on Sunday and have to be on a bus to Houston only a few days later. The rest can cheer them on.

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I still want to play in regionals, but maybe district teams shouldn’t be eligible to qualify for worlds through a regional. We’re already ineligible for EI and Chairman’s. How about we can still play and win, just no ticket to worlds?

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Sounds like everyone wants 2 champs back again. That’s the solution.

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